Realistic gains [Part II] (Muahahah!)

A

AndrewSilverMP5

Member
Contributor
I've read many (boatfrickenload) opinions and thoughts concerning the advantages/disadvantages of going NA and turbo. To this I add my own ...

On paper, turbo seems to be the most financially sound investment. However ... as several posts have mentioned, you are paying for many other things afterwards, including dyno tests and subsequent tuning. The dyno tests alone are $200, by some estimates. That's the price of an Injen CAI. How much of a hole in my wallet would these additional costs create ?

Meanwhile, N/A bolt-ons are mostly install and forget, so I'd only really be paying for parts, but only receive a modest gain at best.

So ... keeping after-installation costs in mind, what's really more cost effective ?

Let the debate begin!

P.S. Please think about what you post before you click the mouse button. Let's not turn this into a 'who-can-come-up-with-the-best-insults' free for all. I really wish to learn something. :)
 
Well I agree and hopefully this wont, but going na doesnt have to be as expensive as they say. I bought my cams for $310 and installed them myself I think with new cam seal and valve cover gasket that came to $350. I has some leftover mandrel bent piping from a old project car and actually todau turned my intake into a cold air intake. So that was $80for a cold air intake (will try to post pic tommorrow). A exhaust shop around me will do a mandrel bent catback piping of 1/4 or 1/2 for $80 ( without muffler). If you do your hoemwork it actually doesnt have to be that expensive. Just wanted to give other ideas. Also most of the people who put down the JDM cams dont even have them.
 
N/A Mods maybe are not install and forget, there is always some tuning to do after bolting mods.

Dynos are important and I dont think is too expensive.
Locally Dynos cost about $60/h.
But if you dont want to go to the dyno, then go to the track.

What if you install, lets say cam sprockets, you set a degree of adjustment that you have read and think is best...how you know if its working right?
They only way is if you dyno, adjust, dyno, adjust, because you will see how your car respond to those adjustments. But if going to the track is more affordable (locally here is $7.00 unlimited races on thursday), then go for it.

So count the DYnos for N/A too.
Just my opinion.
Check all this people street racers that comes to have some fun on the 1/4 track, and mostly, to tune their cars. Just for $7 unlimited tries.
000_0730.jpg
 
I appologize...for how your thread got so F*ked up!

Peace
Chas
 
Yeah, the other thread deteriorated and should basically be put in the flamewars area. I am still on RevsTo9K side. Its too bad he has to be a complete jerk to get his point across.

However, the whole argument behind this new thread is ridiculous. If you buy a turbo kit made for your specific car (Spool, Flyin' Protege), there is NO dyno tuning. The point of buying a kit designed for your car is that they take care of everything you need before even putting the kit to market. This means they tune it and make sure everything works before putting it to market.

For $2595, you can slap on a SPOOL stage 1 kit and get 160whp, hands down. The real additional cost of a turbo is YOUR TIME. With a turbo kit comes added responsibility to the owner. You have to be a little more cautious and check things out. Check your oil levels more often, coolant etc. But who cares, you should be doing this anyhow.

Hey, if somebody could get me 150whp on my MP3 (109whp stock) for under $2000, I'd be willing to listen, especially since I could buy everything a piece at a time. But it just doesn't appear possible.

Good luck,
Chris
 
Yeah, the other thread deteriorated and should basically be put in the flamewars area. I am still on RevsTo9K side. Its too bad he has to be a complete jerk to get his point across.

However, the whole argument behind this new thread is ridiculous. If you buy a turbo kit made for your specific car (Spool, Flyin' Protege), there is NO dyno tuning. The point of buying a kit designed for your car is that they take care of everything you need before even putting the kit to market. This means they tune it and make sure everything works before putting it to market.

For $2595, you can slap on a SPOOL stage 1 kit and get 160whp, hands down. The real additional cost of a turbo is YOUR TIME. With a turbo kit comes added responsibility to the owner. You have to be a little more cautious and check things out. Check your oil levels more often, coolant etc. But who cares, you should be doing this anyhow.

Hey, if somebody could get me 150whp on my MP3 (109whp stock) for under $2000, I'd be willing to listen, especially since I could buy everything a piece at a time. But it just doesn't appear possible.

Good luck,
Chris
Click to expand...

Hey...You thnk for 2595 you can slap on a spool tage 1 kit...Ha...don't forget the price to install....

:rolleyes:

Whenever you want to compare HP per dollar come see me...

IF you want to see 150 whp...on your MP3 for $2000...My suggest...STand alone!!
$1200...than Header back....about 500-800 dollars custom!!

And Custom CAI..about 60 buck...well maybe not quite 150whp..but you will be suprised!!

Chas

Lets Keep DA Peace!
 
I figure it like this someone on here got the blank cams and had them grinded to his specs, header, exhaust, and intake and dynoed at 135 hp and cant remeber the torque. Now If he got that I think ad the cam gears from tri point and you could have 140 to 150 whp. The cam gear rite now is just a guess though, but with standalone I feel deffinetly in the 150 and up. I am going to see if I can find the post with the 135 hp dyno.
 
I'm in no rush for more power right now. I'm having fun enjoying my new car, you should too. My plan is to wait it out and see how the two Turbo kits last in the long run. If in a years time people are trouble free, I'll look into dropping one in to keep me smiling. As for right now...I wouldn't have bought the car if I wasn't happy with the way it performed stock. The stereo, however, must go!
 
So the conclusions I draw from the posts thus far are:

a) Specifically designed Turbos such as Spoolin and FM do not need to be dyno'd or fine tuned. Just find a professional to install and drive carefully.
Therefore the FINAL costs would be: price of turbokit+labor to install

b) Finding N/A parts is not as expensive as most people believe, but again ... gains are minimal.

Does that basically sum everything up thus far ?
 
Yeah, that's true Chuyler ... about the stereo too :)

I really wanted to find some definite answers though, because if turbo is really as cost effective as others claim, I'd need to start saving now and not bother with N/A parts.
 
I agree, a spool stage 1 turbo for 2600. is quite the bang for the buck. But you will need gauges exhaust work and other stuff. and eventually you might need a new clutch running 5psi. Realistically it will cost around 3100 for the set up. plus what ever tax, shipping and handling, and if you dont do the install yourself. Turbo are far from cheap, but offer big gains. To stay NA, to me seems like a waste. If your happy with a CAI and exhaust that would be the extent of what i would do. And mostly just to make it sound good. I wouldnt start playin around with cams, pistons, and a header untill they are dyno proven to show results. I personally will be boosted by the end of june. I am still deciding between the spool stage 2 and having a custom kit made by a reputable local shop. All the turbo problems scare me though sometimes. I hope some solutions are found soon.
 
acidbbg said:


Hey...You thnk for 2595 you can slap on a spool tage 1 kit...Ha...don't forget the price to install....

:rolleyes:

Click to expand...

Alright you got me there. I suppose I'd probably have someone tap the oil pan for me, and then go to a muffler shop to have the downpipe welded to the exhaust, so theres a 100 bucks :rolleyes:.

You do realize the stage 1 is quite easy to install right? The only thing I've done to ANY car is install my AEM in my MP3, and I don't think I'd have any trouble with the Stage 1. Theres no intercooler and intercooler piping to mess with, no fitment issues with the AC compressor and intercooler piping. Its basically a manifold/turbo, oil/water lines, and a few pipes and clamps. The tough part for me would be tapping the oil pan and welding the downpipe to the exhaust, which as I said, would have done.

acidbbg said:

Whenever you want to compare HP per dollar come see me...

IF you want to see 150 whp...on your MP3 for $2000...My suggest...STand alone!!
$1200...than Header back....about 500-800 dollars custom!!

And Custom CAI..about 60 buck...well maybe not quite 150whp..but you will be suprised!!

Chas

Lets Keep DA Peace!
Click to expand...

Whoa, easy there - and who would DYNO TUNE this stand alone for me for FREE? I didn't think so :rolleyes: ... Oh look, we're looking at $2300+ and I still have no guarantees of coming close to 150whp.

I agree, lets keep da peace ;)

Chris
 
You know what's always bothered me ? With all the mods (turbo and non) that we spend (or potentially spend) ... plus the price of the car ... we could have bought the Mazda 6. :\
 
hey guys sorry about the other thread.
i didnt want a flame war out of it..... but sometimes it happens.

anyways peace out
 
Having not completely read through the other thread, I thought I'd put my $0.02CDN (worth about nothing in US funds) here.

I found that several posters were quite well informed, if not a touch aggressive (not necessarily a bad thing, mind you - I'm all for being aggressive and clubbing baby seals) about their likes and dislikes about staying NA for the P5.

I found myself agreeing with them that for the little amount of hp gains that NA affords you, it would seem silly to go this route.

What they didn't take into consideration is that some of us, not all, but some of us have neither the time, nor the inclination, or the aptitude to go turbo on our cars. The kits provided are incredible - the pics make me drool whenever I see them (hell, I find myself reaching for my credit cards whenever I'm on Spoolin's or the B.E.G.I site).

Realistically, I'm not going to spend the $4,000CDN it takes to get the turbo, followed by the $300-$400CDN a mechanic is going to charge me to put it in, then the little bits and pieces to add to make it just right (as much as people tout it as 'plug 'n play', realistically it isn't). Hell, one thing no one mentioned is the fact that you're gonna have to change clutches, flywheels, brakes, etc. I mean, realistically priced out, when all is said and done, the total cost is more likely in the $6 to $7,000CDN. Compared to the (almost) $2G I've spent to get a modest increase in power, hell, I can live with that.

In the end, the reason we stay NA is that for some of us, any gains (on a budget) are better than none - even if they are laughable (and I agree wholeheartedly, they aren't impressive by any means).

If I wanted another 150hp, I would have saved my coin and bought a WRX or a Mustang.

Cheers,


dr_"geez, ain't I philisophical"_sarcasm.
 
IM JUST SAYING EVERYONE STOP TALKING (bicker) (lol) AND LETS JUST FIND OUT. EVERYONE CAN CHIP IN ABOUT 60 BUCKS AND ILL GO THE N/A ROUTE. THE 60 DUCKEYS FROM EVERYONE WILL GO TOWARDS THE UPGRADES, THE DYNO CHARGES AND A SODA WHEN A GET THRISTY AND A PINE TREE AIR FRESHERNER AND MAYBE SOME TYPE R STICKERS WHICH WILL ADD TO THE HP. MAYBE ONE OF THOSE HIGH ASS SPOILERS TOO. (spank) (spank)
 
It mainly depends on what you want out of your car. Do you want just a slight bit more throttle response and pep, or do you want full blown power. If all you want is more zip, get the cams, headder, and CAI. If you do all the installs yourself, you can stay below $1000 and have an extra 15 to 20hp. If you want full blown power and the cheapest route, you should go with the Spool Stage 1 or the FM turbo kit.

It all depends on what you want out of your car. And everyone is different.
 
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