Realistic gains [Part II] (Muahahah!)

[RAAZ227]

my opinion and experience turbo is the best way to make "reliable hp (cruising on the highway then droping to 3rd)" nothing beats that. N/A is great don't get me wrong. turbo just has that punch!! just look at all the pro import drag racers. turbo heaven! N/A is a lot more costly to make equal amount of power. any big power maker requires tuning so your not going to get around that. i personally think serious N/A tunig (pistons, rods, cams, head work, etc. is difficult to tune just right. just slap on a turbo, do a little fuel enrichment and you set to 80+ hp. hope this can help!

 

[twilightprotege]

hey

i'd just like to have a quick talk about $2000 to get 150whp n/a.

custom ground cams (use stock cams and do lumpier than mazdaspeed ones) - $300usd

high compression pistons (10.7:1) - $200usd

cai - $100usd

head work - $500usd (that's an absolute maximim you should have to pay) - this will get the maximum power benefit

throttle body bored 2mm - $200usd

cat-back exhaust $300usd

now that's $1600usd. i could pretty much guarantee that'll get you 150whp na....with $400 spare for install if you cant do that yourself....or if you can - put the $400 to a hi flow cat, spark plugs and wires.

easy 150whp. i have no doubt about that.

later

 

[perfworks]

one of the most important things about either N/A or turbo that rarely gets mentioned is..........
emmisions!
depending on where you live and the hassle you want to have this plays a large role in the dicision making process
headers ARE illegal in all 50 STATES for the proteges with that pesky primary cat.
also depending on the cam profile (if you want to get technical) can also be smog ILLEGAL
now the mazda speed cam i think you are ok ( i think ) but any regrinds i dont know
plus they wont really know what kind of cams you got in there right?
unlees they have an engine dyno at the inspection station and your fuel system , spark are not tuned properly
either way you go there is going to be tuning
dont be fooled if you want to get some serious HP and think that ecu tuning wont be needed either

 

[RAAZ227]

hey

i'd just like to have a quick talk about $2000 to get 150whp n/a.

custom ground cams (use stock cams and do lumpier than mazdaspeed ones) - $300usd

high compression pistons (10.7:1) - $200usd

cai - $100usd

head work - $500usd (that's an absolute maximim you should have to pay) - this will get the maximum power benefit

throttle body bored 2mm - $200usd

cat-back exhaust $300usd

now that's $1600usd. i could pretty much guarantee that'll get you 150whp na....with $400 spare for install if you cant do that yourself....or if you can - put the $400 to a hi flow cat, spark plugs and wires.

easy 150whp. i have no doubt about that.

later

i don't know about $500 for head work. on average, term head work is: valves, port and polish, cams and labor. a minium job like that can run you like $1200 ~ $1600. that's minium for a dual cam. unles you know how to use a flow bench, know the venturi affect and know how to hour glass a port. you won't have to pay labor.

 

[perfworks]

a good job around here is $1000
with all the above work, port, polish, match, guides, vavle job etc.
now for max potential to this particular head i have gotten quote of 1700
thats computer designed and machined port work included

 

[RevsTo9K]

The cost of the HC pistons are about $200 shipped only. If you can't install them yourself, it is a mnimum $1500 anytime the mechanic goes into the block.

 

[Melanism]

Well I agree and hopefully this wont, but going na doesnt have to be as expensive as they say. I bought my cams for $310 and installed them myself I think with new cam seal and valve cover gasket that came to $350. I has some leftover mandrel bent piping from a old project car and actually todau turned my intake into a cold air intake. So that was $80for a cold air intake (will try to post pic tommorrow). A exhaust shop around me will do a mandrel bent catback piping of 1/4 or 1/2 for $80 ( without muffler). If you do your hoemwork it actually doesnt have to be that expensive. Just wanted to give other ideas. Also most of the people who put down the JDM cams dont even have them.

$80 for madrel bent exhaust!?!?!? Are you sure!?!? Hell...at that price, get me a full exhaust (Header on back, 1 cat) made and ship it to me!

 

[spoolinmp3]

my opinion and experience turbo is the best way to make "reliable hp (cruising on the highway then droping to 3rd)" nothing beats that. N/A is great don't get me wrong. turbo just has that punch!! just look at all the pro import drag racers. turbo heaven! N/A is a lot more costly to make equal amount of power. any big power maker requires tuning so your not going to get around that. i personally think serious N/A tunig (pistons, rods, cams, head work, etc. is difficult to tune just right. just slap on a turbo, do a little fuel enrichment and you set to 80+ hp. hope this can help!

So true

 

[twilightprotege]

i need to clarrify what i was talking about for $500usd head work - that's just a port and match.

never, i repeat, never polish the head. if the runners are too smooth the air and fuel wont mix properly and you'll be missing out on a lot of power. if the head is slightly rough you'll be getting the maximum benefit out of the head work.

i have been quoted here in australia for a head port and match - $500aud - that's around $300usd.

with our engine and the rev limit, new valves are not required. we only need to start changing them when the limit is raised.

i stand by my calculation - 150whp n/a for under $2000usd.

later

 

[perfworks]

you can port and polish the manifold if your only pushing air thru
no problem there but i do agree with you on the head port side
not too smooth but not too rough either

 

[RevsTo9K]

if the head is slightly rough you'll be getting the maximum benefit out of the head work.

I have to disagree with you on that one. The Protege has the butterfly in the intake manifold that gives the incomming air a tumble effect. The faster you can get the air in, the better you will be for power.

 

[twilightprotege]

hey

yes you still get a tumble effect, but it still needs to be rough to disturb the air. it will not slow down the air by leaving it slightly rough and you get the air and fuel mixing perfectly. i suggest talking to an experienced head worker and they'll say exactly that...it needs to be slightly rough.

later

 

[RevsTo9K]

it will not slow down the air by leaving it slightly rough and you get the air and fuel mixing perfectly.

I'm not going to argue with you about this, but I am educated in what I'm talking about. It will slow down the air entering the head. I am an engineering student and I have already taken fluid dynamics and thermodynamics. Anything that is protruding from a surface that fluid is flowing past will cause parisitic drag. It won't slow it down drasticaly, but it will slow it down. For the power that this motor is capable of, it isn't that big of a deal. But when you are talking about a 1000hp motor, it makes the difference of 980hp, or 1000hp. The effects grow exponentially as the power levels increase.

 

[perfworks]

agian the INTAKE manifold has a vtcs set up BUT it is not in operation after normal operating tempaerature. second the dual stage manifold (if thats what you are refering to and misunderstood) is there for additional air flow when 4550 rpm and open loop
the intake manifold CAN be polished for improved AIR ONLY performance
the head though is a different entity
(depending on who you talk to) like i stated before a smooth surface will improve velocity ((on this particular design mind you))
and A/F dynamics before entering the chamber.
NOT polished, BUT also not as rough as you claim revs where it will cause a drag
i doubt though that the factory head is that parasitc to begin with anyway
cam profile and port direction are a different story

 

[twizyours]

$80 for madrel bent exhaust!?!?!? Are you sure!?!? Hell...at that price, get me a full exhaust (Header on back, 1 cat) made and ship it to me!

Yes I am it is $80.00 for cat back mandrel bending, not header back I believe header back is $120. All they do is exhaust parking lot is always full and is by apointment only. Well I got the call so in four days I am gone.

Her is some deatails though

website under construction www.henrysmufflershop.com
2202 Capital Blvd.
Raleigh, N.C 27604
(919)832-7022

Their is also anothe place called bobs that I think does it for $120.
Mandrel bent piping shouldnt be more then crushed bent, all it is is a mandrel that is put in the pipe and bent to keep uniform. If you dont believe me give them a call. Like I said I wont be here for probally about 4 more days, but I am sure you can find someone else in the raleigh n.c area to get it for you if you want.