Off Topic Rav4 Prime XSE

I am burning over $300/mo in fuel. I am preparing to transition into a rav4 prime xse to stave the bleeding as gas prices continue to rise. Any compelling reasons not to that I may have glossed over?
I only average 27mpg.
Since you drive ~36K miles/year, your driving is overwhelmingly highway miles.
You get right at the highway EPA estimate for the CX-5 with 27 MPG.
The Rav4 Prime is rated at 36 MPG highway, correct?

So you will use 1333 gallons with the CX-5 and 1000 gallons with the Rav4, in a year.
At $3.00/gallon, you will save exactly $1,000/year in fuel with the Rav4.

Between the purchase price, warranty and tires, you're in the Rav4 for nearly $50,000.
After your trade-in, you spent nearly $25,000 on the Rav4.
This means it will take 25 YEARS in fuel savings to recoup this cost.

It is perfectly fine if you wanted to upgrade for other reasons, but fuel savings should have been at the very bottom of the list...spend $50,000 to save $1,000.
 
Since you drive ~36K miles/year, your driving is overwhelmingly highway miles.
You get right at the highway EPA estimate for the CX-5 with 27 MPG.
The Rav4 Prime is rated at 36 MPG highway, correct?

So you will use 1333 gallons with the CX-5 and 1000 gallons with the Rav4, in a year.
At $3.00/gallon, you will save exactly $1,000/year in fuel with the Rav4.

Between the purchase price, warranty and tires, you're in the Rav4 for nearly $50,000.
After your trade-in, you spent nearly $25,000 on the Rav4.
This means it will take 25 YEARS in fuel savings to recoup this cost.

It is perfectly fine if you wanted to upgrade for other reasons, but fuel savings should have been at the very bottom of the list...spend $50,000 to save $1,000.
I spent $110 on fuel last month, and that was because I was being a weirdo and broke it in on 91 octane Shell V Nitro +++ Guccimane fuel. Two fill-ups cost me $40/ea, then I came to my senses and put in some 87 octane TT from Cenex at $30/fillup, so should see monthly fuel use drop to $90-100. Granted, I only drove about 2300mi this month. I had a few life changes, and drive a hair less now.My CX5 averaging 27.0mpg (for the 80K I owned it), and the fact that I put in 91 octane ($3.19 at Cenex), to extract as much rated hp as possible (We don't have 93), that comes out to $270, or $170/mo more. $2000/year.

Also factor in the $7500 tax return I will now be eligible for. Now factor in the calculated depreciation for a RAV4 Prime at 10y/210K miles is a residual value of just over $10K, while the CX5 GTR is just over $3K, for another $7000. You come out to a 10 years savings of $34,500, not counting initial purchase prices. Now factor in that I like the Prime XSE more than I liked my CX5. Pretty good deal.

In the "immediate future", the Rav4 Prime costs me within $20/mo of the CX5 in note, and costs another $20 to insure. It saves $170 on fuel, and my solar array soaks up almost all of the charging burden. So immediately, it's saving me $130/mo, at the expense of extending my payments for another @3 years, but at the benefit of shaving 80K miles off the vehicle because it's also new...

Now consider my CX5 was due for plugs and brakes (another $1400 at the dealer, or at least $5-600 if you DIY and dont replace your rotors, just turn them).

Now consider the Rav4 Prime brakes last 2-300K miles because regen braking...

Now consider that the Rav4 Prime has NO belts or belt tensioners or anything associated...

Now consider the plug change interval is 100K or so, and not 40K...

Now consider that the engine only runs about 1/2 the time in my case, so I feel comfortable following Toyota's 10K intervals AND the engine has port injection as well as DI, so it won't get carboned up as easily or fuel wash as it's not a DI turbo, so this is fine...

The Prime will cost considerably less to own.

Maintenance will cost far less.
 
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There’s a ton of factors to consider when determining which car is the better value. Personal preference/satisfaction is a major part and can’t be overlooked. For me, driving 13,000 mi/yr the $34.8k 0% Signature in the exact color combo I wanted, plus a $600 JB4 tuner to bump the power was my sweet spot. But if I was driving substantially more than that and wanted fuel economy plus performance, then the Prime or a long range electric would make more sense.
 
There’s a ton of factors to consider when determining which car is the better value. Personal preference/satisfaction is a major part and can’t be overlooked. For me, driving 13,000 mi/yr the $34.8k 0% Signature in the exact color combo I wanted, plus a $600 JB4 tuner to bump the power was my sweet spot. But if I was driving substantially more than that and wanted fuel economy plus performance, then the Prime or a long range electric would make more sense.
I had some qualms with my mazda that the Toyota fixed, as well as the economy, for sure.
 
Granted, I only drove about 2300mi this month. I had a few life changes, and drive a hair less now. My CX5 averaging 27.0mpg .... $2000/year.
Here is an actual apples to apples calculation based on the numbers you provided...
- 2300 miles/month is 27,600 miles/yr
- You get the EPA highway of 27 MPG for the CX-5 (1022 gal/yr)
- It is reasonable to assume you'll get the 36 MPG EPA highway for the Rav4 (767 gal/yr).
- If gas is $3/gallon, your annual fuel savings will be $767.

Now factor in the calculated depreciation for a RAV4 Prime at 10y/210K miles is a residual value of just over $10K, while the CX5 GTR is just over $3K, for another $7000.
Why are you trying to calculate 10 year depreciation/residuals, when you only keep your cars for a few years each? You got rid of the CX-5 after just 2 years, so its 10 year residual is completely meaningless.

The Prime will cost considerably less to own.
Maintenance will cost far less.
Based on the Rav4 Prime maintenance schedule, I don't see how you come to this conclusion. You will be taking it in for service every 5K miles, just like you did with your Mazda.

The $7500 tax credit certainly helps minimize the financial bleed on the deal. With the credit, you have about $44,000 into the Rav4 (MSRP+doc+warranty+tires+tax-tax credit).
 
Here is an actual apples to apples calculation based on the numbers you provided...
- 2300 miles/month is 27,600 miles/yr
- You get the EPA highway of 27 MPG for the CX-5 (1022 gal/yr)
- It is reasonable to assume you'll get the 36 MPG EPA highway for the Rav4 (767 gal/yr).
- If gas is $3/gallon, your annual fuel savings will be $767.


Why are you trying to calculate 10 year depreciation/residuals, when you only keep your cars for a few years each? You got rid of the CX-5 after just 2 years, so its 10 year residual is completely meaningless.


Based on the Rav4 Prime maintenance schedule, I don't see how you come to this conclusion. You will be taking it in for service every 5K miles, just like you did with your Mazda.

The $7500 tax credit certainly helps minimize the financial bleed on the deal. With the credit, you have about $44,000 into the Rav4 (MSRP+doc+warranty+tires+tax-tax credit).
1) I am getting 55-65mpg so far.
2) Big facts, there. I keep saying I want to keep one for a quarter million miles, but have yet to do it. I guess we CAN write that one off, lol! That said, you know I'll g et more for the Prime than the CX5 on trade-in.
3)The RAV4 Prime brakes last a lot longer, it has no belts that need replacing, no tensioners that need replacing, and I will only rotate the tires every 5k, oil changes every 10K, because the engine likely will only run 5K miles over 10K travelled, and it's not a turbo/DI car. Further, the Prime doesn't call for new spark plugs every 40K miles.
4) Yes, the tax credit is legit!
 
1) I am getting 55-65mpg so far.
2) Big facts, there. I keep saying I want to keep one for a quarter million miles, but have yet to do it. I guess we CAN write that one off, lol! That said, you know I'll g et more for the Prime than the CX5 on trade-in.
3)The RAV4 Prime brakes last a lot longer, it has no belts that need replacing, no tensioners that need replacing, and I will only rotate the tires every 5k, oil changes every 10K, because the engine likely will only run 5K miles over 10K travelled, and it's not a turbo/DI car. Further, the Prime doesn't call for new spark plugs every 40K miles.
4) Yes, the tax credit is legit!
You drive 27K-40K miles per year. Unless you are an uber driver, the overwhelming majority of those miles must be highway. If so, then surely you recognize that your MPG will be much closer to the 36 MPG EPA highway rating for the Rav4, correct?

With this type of driving, I'm curious why you think the engine will only run 50% of the time?

You only keep your cars a few years each, so you aren't replacing belts and tensioners. Your additional maintenance likely consists of 2 sets of spark plugs and 1 set of brake pads.

With the Rav4, you are still having it serviced every 5K miles. I bet those service visits will run nearly as much as the $60 services you said you're charged for the CX-5. And with a DC converter air filter and special 0W-16 oil, it may be more expensive.
 
You drive 27K-40K miles per year. Unless you are an uber driver, the overwhelming majority of those miles must be highway. If so, then surely you recognize that your MPG will be much closer to the 36 MPG EPA highway rating for the Rav4, correct?

With this type of driving, I'm curious why you think the engine will only run 50% of the time?

You only keep your cars a few years each, so you aren't replacing belts and tensioners. Your additional maintenance likely consists of 2 sets of spark plugs and 1 set of brake pads.

With the Rav4, you are still having it serviced every 5K miles. I bet those service visits will run nearly as much as the $60 services you said you're charged for the CX-5. And with a DC converter air filter and special 0W-16 oil, it may be more expensive.
-Dunno what to tell you on the mpg, but my read-out and hand calculations are showing me 55-65 per tank, typically. Again, my EV/HV ratio shows about 50/50 or so, more or less. Maybe it will run 6500 miles out of that 10K, maybe 4500. Either way, my oil looks VERY nice at 2800mi currently. Barely used at all. Obviously looks don't matter here, but it is reassuring on an emotional level, lol!

-I am not sure what a tire rotation will cost, as I've not had one done, yet.

-The oil is "expensive" at $7.83/quart.

-The DC converter air filter is actually cleanable, per Toyota, and a "service when dirty" type thing. It's a "inspect and clean" item typically. Basically, it's a paper lint filter.

-I would like to keep a vehicle longer than I have been. That is the goal. I just am looking for one that doesn't annoy me. My CX5, ultimately annoyed me. No boost in cold weather, mirror motors every 25K miles give or take. Why not take the chance to get out of it and into something more comfortable, faster, and economical to operate? My 2015 CX5, I actually had just turned 106K miles and had bought several hundred dollars in parts for. Valve cover gasket, tensioner, belts. Then it shat the bed and I just traded it in because I didn't want to deal with the $1000+ repairs on a vehicle I wasn't really "into". I got rid of my 2019 because like I said, it annoyed me, and the Prime was much cheaper to own/operate. Maybe I will have issues with this Prime or something and trade early. If I do, Toyotas hold value extremely well, especially their hybrid models, and especially with the state of the world.
 
I tend to agree with you. Depreciation should not be an issue for you.
The Rav4 Prime should hold it's value extremely well, unlike say a Kia or a Suzuki, or some other brands out there.
I keep looking around at used car values, mostly out of curiosity, but in my case, my 2017 6 has lost a lot of value, even though it's the top line GT with tech and premium, and only has 25,000 kms on it (about 15k miles). For me to trade it now would be financial suicide. There is also little to no demand for a 6, so I'm pretty much stuck with it for now.

Anyway, keep us posted on your Rav4 journey if you don't mind. I find it interesting.
Cheers.
 
-Dunno what to tell you on the mpg, but my read-out and hand calculations are showing me 55-65 per tank, typically. Again, my EV/HV ratio shows about 50/50 or so, more or less. Maybe it will run 6500 miles out of that 10K, maybe 4500.
How many total miles have you driven so far?
You must averagae 95% highway if you're driving 27K-40K miles/yr, in which case you will likely be much closer to the 36 MPG. It would be quite shocking if you got 30 MPG HIGHER than the EPA estimate.

-I would like to keep a vehicle longer than I have been. That is the goal. I just am looking for one that doesn't annoy me.
There isn't anything wrong with changing cars frequently, if that's what makes you happy and it's what you want to spend your money on.
I'm at the far opposite end of the spectrum. I buy brand new cars, drive them for 10-14 years, and get rid of it when it reaches 150K-175K miles. I pay cash, never get warranties/other add-ons, never use the dealer for service, never trade-in cars, ect.
 
How many total miles have you driven so far?
You must averagae 95% highway if you're driving 27K-40K miles/yr, in which case you will likely be much closer to the 36 MPG. It would be quite shocking if you got 30 MPG HIGHER than the EPA estimate.


There isn't anything wrong with changing cars frequently, if that's what makes you happy and it's what you want to spend your money on.
I'm at the far opposite end of the spectrum. I buy brand new cars, drive them for 10-14 years, and get rid of it when it reaches 150K-175K miles. I pay cash, never get warranties/other add-ons, never use the dealer for service, never trade-in cars, ect.
Ive driven about 2800mi so far. Dunno what to tell you.
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Ive driven about 2800mi so far. Dunno what to tell you.
You never really answered...
Is your driving overwhelmingly highway?
Or do you rack up all those miles driving day & night for uber?

If most of those 2800 miles are highway and you are truly DOUBLING the EPA highway estimate, then you should contact Toyota immediately. You would be in all of their advertising/promotions for achieving an engineering miracle with your Rav4.
 
You never really answered...
Is your driving overwhelmingly highway?
Or do you rack up all those miles driving day & night for uber?

If most of those 2800 miles are highway and you are truly DOUBLING the EPA highway estimate, then you should contact Toyota immediately. You would be in all of their advertising/promotions for achieving an engineering miracle with your Rav4.
I drive from home, to work, and home on weekends, and weekdays I drive from home, to the gym, and then home. I live rather remotely. The commute is on rural highways and then down a major interstate (maybe 50%? I have not measured precisely). When I just go to town for the gym or to roll, it's almost exclusively PEV. Going to work, it's 50/50 give or take.
 
I drive from home, to work, and home on weekends, and weekdays I drive from home, to the gym, and then home. I live rather remotely. The commute is on rural highways and then down a major interstate (maybe 50%? I have not measured precisely). When I just go to town for the gym or to roll, it's almost exclusively PEV. Going to work, it's 50/50 give or take.
That makes sense.
I also do a lot of rural highway driving and am amazed at the gas mileage I get on those roads.
I'm surprised your CX-5 gas mileage wasn't higher than what you reported.
 
That makes sense.
I also do a lot of rural highway driving and am amazed at the gas mileage I get on those roads.
I'm surprised your CX-5 gas mileage wasn't higher than what you reported.
27mpg is its highway rating. I got that overall, over 80k mi
 
27mpg is its highway rating. I got that overall, over 80k mi
I was just saying that if you are driving 30K-40K miles/year primarily on rural highways and interstates, I would think you could beat the EPA highway rating in the CX-5, just like you are beating it with your new Rav4.
I far surpass the highway rating when driving on rural highways.
 
I was just saying that if you are driving 30K-40K miles/year primarily on rural highways and interstates, I would think you could beat the EPA highway rating in the CX-5, just like you are beating it with your new Rav4.
I far surpass the highway rating when driving on rural highways.
I'm not beating the EPA rating for the R4P. I'm getting exactly what's advertised.
As for the CX5, I did manage 27 when it was rated at 24.
 
I'm not beating the EPA rating for the R4P. I'm getting exactly what's advertised.
The EPA estimate for hybrid mode is 40 City, 36 Highway, 38 Combined.
It has an electric only driving range of 42 miles (assuming a fully charged battery).

I'm not sure what your driving pattern is to accumulate 30K+ miles/yr, but I would have guessed it was lots of miles in a single trip, which would minimize the electric-only benefit.

If instead you drive 82 miles/day, 365 days a year (accumulating 30K miles), then the battery would have a significant impact on your mileage.
 
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