Question for MSP owners...

I am getting ready to replace another one of our cars and test drove a MSP today. Under accelleration, the car feels like it is surging. It was most noticable in third gear under medium throttle accelleration runs. The salesman noticed it too and said he would have the car checked out and let me know about it on monday. Out of curiosity,thinking it may have just been a fluke, I went to another dealer and drove another one. It felt the same way. Now before you start the flame and say it's the boost, I know what a turbo car feels like. Owning one now and having owned three different types in the past makes you pretty much used to it. The question is, has anyone else noticed it and if so, did it clear up after the car got some miles on it and the ECU got it's habits in order?
 
I haven't noticed anything like that at all yet anyways. It may have been a fluke. You're lucky you got to testdrive it. The dealer around here laughed at me when I asked to testdrive it. He told me wh en I buy it I can testdrive it.
 
I have 1300 miles on it and I did notice it alot at first but now I think it has faded with time. I have also notice the increase in bov sound as the car as had miles on it.
 
I have had the "surge" or "stumbling" problem with my car since the day I got it. Especially under medium accelation.
The CAI did aleviate some of the problem, but a large portion of the "Stumbling" still remains
 
Yup, Have noticed same thing as well. I was giving it till about 3-5K miles to stop. I doubt it is going to go away though.
 
At least I know it wasn't just me. I drove a third today and felt the same way. I don't think it has much to do with the exhaust and cats. It almost seems like they don't have the calbiration perfected yet. Like the fuel tables are more of a rough guess. It wasn't just a dip in power at a certain RPM, the power really wavered and never at the same point. It just didn't feel right. I'll have to drive someone elses that has a few thousand miles and see if it's better before I commit. Thanks for the input.
 
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rodslinger said:
At least I know it wasn't just me. I drove a third today and felt the same way. I don't think it has much to do with the exhaust and cats. It almost seems like they don't have the calbiration perfected yet. Like the fuel tables are more of a rough guess. It wasn't just a dip in power at a certain RPM, the power really wavered and never at the same point. It just didn't feel right. I'll have to drive someone elses that has a few thousand miles and see if it's better before I commit. Thanks for the input.

I added my K&N filter yesterday (2,650 miles), and I can honestly say, the stumbling (hiccuping) on acceleration seems to be gone. At least it is today. I have posted this on the other thread relating to my K&N install. Of course, the BOV, and the spooling are now much more present, and I know I have a gained at least a few horsepower. 'Just smooth acceleration in every gear now, but I will be watching for any changes.
 
Thanks AGR, Was thinking about spending some of the Tax return on the Injen CAI, but if don't do that I will for sure go the K&N route after your and Britts review :)
 
Ah the stumbles.....

I first noticed this when I drove SpicyMSP's car. Under partial and full throttle acceleration in every gear the car would feel like it was mis-firing or bucking under boost. It wasn't huge enough to toss you around in the seat but enough to feel the car was not at its peak potential.

First few thoughts that ran through my head......

1: Knock Sensor was very sensitive and retarded the timing too much.

2: Poor ECU Tuning from the factory leading to stumbles.

3: Bypass valve leaking boost and causing a surge.

After we had Injen do the development with the intake the 3500-4500 surge went away but all of the little stumbles seemed more pronounced. So if you thought the intake was restricting the motor and causing it to stumble, it wasn't quite the problem.

Now we move on to the knock sensor. I don't have a way of checking this while the car is running to tell if this is the main cause right now.

On the other hand, my buddy Brett from Vishnu Performance up north who dyno'd the 138whp MSP said that the A/F ratios from their wideband sensor were reading in the 10:1 range. A full 2 points richer than it should be under this amount of boost. This could lead to a rich stumble if the mixture is not getting fully burned. This is my main suspect for the stumble right now.

The final reason may lie in the bypass valve, it seems to be improperly shimmed for the car. A normal valve will release all of the air back into the intake and this seems to only release a small amount. Thats why you'll hear a slight cough like a turkey when it goes off. I will be trying to find an H25 TurboXS valve to adjust it manually and see if that helps.

If anyone else finds out any info let me know, we'll be testing things out on her car until my MSP comes in.
 
Still......no stumbles at this time, after the K&N install. Hope it stays that way! I installed the sensor in the base of the K&N. That is all I know; besides greater throttle response, louder spooling, and the BOV is more audible between shifts. Really nice little improvement - I am impressed! ($40.00 invested) I'm sure some additional ponies, but I have no idea how many.
 
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turboge said:
Ah the stumbles.....

I first noticed this when I drove SpicyMSP's car. Under partial and full throttle acceleration in every gear the car would feel like it was mis-firing or bucking under boost. It wasn't huge enough to toss you around in the seat but enough to feel the car was not at its peak potential.

First few thoughts that ran through my head......

1: Knock Sensor was very sensitive and retarded the timing too much.

2: Poor ECU Tuning from the factory leading to stumbles.

3: Bypass valve leaking boost and causing a surge.

After we had Injen do the development with the intake the 3500-4500 surge went away but all of the little stumbles seemed more pronounced. So if you thought the intake was restricting the motor and causing it to stumble, it wasn't quite the problem.

Now we move on to the knock sensor. I don't have a way of checking this while the car is running to tell if this is the main cause right now.

On the other hand, my buddy Brett from Vishnu Performance up north who dyno'd the 138whp MSP said that the A/F ratios from their wideband sensor were reading in the 10:1 range. A full 2 points richer than it should be under this amount of boost. This could lead to a rich stumble if the mixture is not getting fully burned. This is my main suspect for the stumble right now.

The final reason may lie in the bypass valve, it seems to be improperly shimmed for the car. A normal valve will release all of the air back into the intake and this seems to only release a small amount. Thats why you'll hear a slight cough like a turkey when it goes off. I will be trying to find an H25 TurboXS valve to adjust it manually and see if that helps.

If anyone else finds out any info let me know, we'll be testing things out on her car until my MSP comes in.


After I boosted up I noticed the BOV leak. At 9 PSI at the top of fourth it creeps almost back down to stock. People still didn't believe me about that like everything else. Yeah I hooked mine up to a wideban and got almost the samew thing in the 10's range. Thats why I cranked it back up to 9 pounds.
 
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