Put my RF speakers in... not pleased.

[Hazman]

Well, today I began the first part of my audio makeover to my '99 LX, which was replacing my two 6x8s and two 6x9s with Rockford Fosgate Punch speakers. I'm running the stock deck as of now (new one being put in tomorrow). Anyway, after hours of removing panels, cutting wires, etc., I finally put the speakers in, and then let them "break in" for a couple of hours with the system turned down low. Then, as I began to turn up, I realized that the rear speakers sounded weak as hell. The more I listened, the more I realized that my stock speakers (Pioneer) actually had more bass and just sounded better overall. The front speakers are definitely an improvement, as they are cleaner and crisper, but the rears sound like crap, and I'm pissed because of how much effort that required.

Now, I don't know what to do. The RFs have a HUGE magnet compared to my stock speakers, and are price-wise so much "better". Am I not driving them hard enough? I thought about that, but then again, when I turn the stock system up "too high," the RFs begin producing a crappy, rattling sound that sounds disgusting.
I don't know. I'm going to see what the people at Best Buy say tomorrow when they put in my new deck. Do you guys have any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Matthew]

since everyone is going to tell you anyway, ill say it first

dont worry about your rear speakers. turn them down or fade to the front or whatever.

 

[toucci]

yeah my sound sounds better if I just turn off the crappastic rear speakers ever since I put infinity reference comps up front (sssh)

 

[hi-perf]

its called your stock deck is very weak and is lucky to push 5-10W RMS to each channel.

once you get an aftermarket deck or even better yet an amp, you will then hear some very loud sounds.

i know this from personal experience, weatherstripping and dynamat is your friend.

 

[ELEmental59437]

hi-perf got it!

 

[bonesmp5]

if im not mistaken-- the LX is a sedan -- therefore the 6x9s would be the source of the bass if there is no sub--- with that said and if what i said was right -- then it can be possible that the deck does NOT have enough power to run the bigger magnets which can cause a lose of sound (bass) from the rear -- also if you havent already-- double check you wires-- if one side is opposite of the other then it wont sound good --- if you have the radio on and you undo one side then youll hear right away a difference in sound IF it was crossed --

 

[bonesmp5]

holy cow-- there were 2 post put in right as i was typing it --- lol

damn im slow

 

[Hazman]

Hey guys, I understand what you're saying about the stock deck being too weak, but for some reason, even when I turn THAT up, the speakers just don't sound as good as the stock ones did. I guess I'll have to see tomorrow. Thanks for your responses though; that was really quick.

 

[1sty]

Hey guys, I understand what you're saying about the stock deck being too weak, but for some reason, even when I turn THAT up, the speakers just don't sound as good as the stock ones did. I guess I'll have to see tomorrow. Thanks for your responses though; that was really quick.

I think Bone is on the right track. I believe you have a phase issue.
Try this:
Fade to the front, now balance all the way to the right and then all the way to the left. If the bass was not the loudest when centered the one of the front speakers is out of phase. Fade to the rear and repeat. Then balance to the right and fade between front and rear to be sure everything is in phase.

Speakers being out of phase is basicly when one pulls air while the other speaker pushes it which essentialy cancels out sound altogether. We hear it most as bass loss.

 

[SP33D]

how much did you spend on them?

 

[sndsgood]

if your stock deck isnt giving those 6x9's the power they need, turning yoru deck up higher and feeding the speakers a clipped and distorted signal isnt going to help. i'd definatly say amplify them if u want it to just be louder. but also check the polarity of the speakers first.

 

[Poseur]

FWIW, the stock decks in our cars are fairly powerful. I wish I knew the source, but I"ve heared a few very reliable ones who say it's been tested at 17w which is just as strong or not stronger than any aftermarket deck.

Apart from that, I really wouldn't worry about your 6x9's thatmuch. but definately check your phase.

 

[got wake?]

FWIW, the stock decks in our cars are fairly powerful. I wish I knew the source, but I"ve heared a few very reliable ones who say it's been tested at 17w which is just as strong or not stronger than any aftermarket deck.

Apart from that, I really wouldn't worry about your 6x9's thatmuch. but definately check your phase.

i believe dave cameron tested it at 14 watts at like 5% distortion, but i may be wrong on the distortion, but i remember the HU only put out 14 usable watts. not bad considering the RF units put out 10 watts according to the CEA2006 ratings http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/source_rfx_grid.asp

course props to alpine for putting out 26 watts:
http://iweb.alpine-usa.com/pls/admn/item_info?p_item_name=CDA-9835&p_category=10&p_subcategory=45&p_main=10

even their lower powered units put out 18 watts:
http://iweb.alpine-usa.com/pls/admn/item_info?p_item_name=CDA-9827&p_category=10&p_subcategory=45&p_main=10

 

[hi-perf]

FWIW, the stock decks in our cars are fairly powerful. I wish I knew the source, but I"ve heared a few very reliable ones who say it's been tested at 17w which is just as strong or not stronger than any aftermarket deck.

Apart from that, I really wouldn't worry about your 6x9's thatmuch. but definately check your phase.

come on dude you have a pretty much AFTERMARKET eqivelent deck in your car, its even worse considering the fact taht it is powered by a seperate 4 channel kenwood amp, not even having the speakers powered by the HU.

how can you even compare that to a regular sedan, or even the 99-00 cd player with the single DIN old model.

if youve had a sedan before your msp then the above does not apply to you.

 

[RyanJayG]

read his Avatar again.. slowly this time

 

[Poseur]

Trying to compare my stuff to his is apples to oranges, you're right, I highly doubt that there's much of a paralell to be drawn between 1.5+kw in a P5 and upgraded speakers alone in a sedan. But, umm.... I don't know if I get any of your point. I've got 220w RMS going to each of my front speakers, but the stock 6" rears in mine are powered off of my deck.

Does any of this take away from my credibility? I'm really only trying to help here, as always, with any of us in here at any given time are likely to be full of s***, but I really don't think I'm off-track here. Yep I was wrong about output. 14w it is, which is still as high as most any aftermarket deck short of alpines.

I ran with my stock stereo for quite awhile, fairly happily actually, but in the end, I've got it in my blood, I couldn't stop at just swapping my deck so I could play mp3's.

 

[1sty]

Don't forget to mentionwake that the CEA rates at 1% distortion not 5% like dave tested the factory deck at.

Gotta love alpine V-drive. The one in my 9815 is great for powering my VR650csi components. I have had zero motivation to add an amp becuase it sounds so good.

 

[got wake?]

Don't forget to mentionwake that the CEA rates at 1% distortion not 5% like dave tested the factory deck at.

Gotta love alpine V-drive. The one in my 9815 is great for powering my VR650csi components. I have had zero motivation to add an amp becuase it sounds so good.

yeah, i forgot that point(rockon) it's nice that they finally came out with the CEA ratings. i'm just wondering if any of the "flea market" brands will even bother with it(moon) i'd love to see the CEA rating for the earthquake PHD3 amp i'm looking into(evil) or the autotek mean machine 3000.1(drinks)

 

[1sty]

come on dude you have a pretty much AFTERMARKET eqivelent deck in your car, its even worse considering the fact taht it is powered by a seperate 4 channel kenwood amp, not even having the speakers powered by the HU.

how can you even compare that to a regular sedan, or even the 99-00 cd player with the single DIN old model.

if youve had a sedan before your msp then the above does not apply to you.

He is basicly correct. Keep in mind it takes twice the power to get an extra 3db from the drivers. That means if the factory deck is 10 watts rms an aftermarket one must be 20 watts rms per channel to make a noticable difference. I have always thought the factory deck was around 10 watts rms. As some decks are only from 10-15 watts per the new standards, I think we can give Posoer credit for being correct in idea if not in numbers.

 

[chuyler1]

I didn't read all the bickering above but I'll add my 2 cents.

I have seen/heard this before. People replace only the speakers in their car and they claim the stock speakers sounded better/louder. The main reason is because the stock speakers were designed to reach peak performance with the 10 watts coming from the stock stereo. They have a small magnet and a very loose suspension. They sound great under low power but cannot handle higher levels.

When you send that 10 watts to an aftermarket speaker, it is not going to put out the same sound because it is designed to handle more power. They are less sensitive to the input signal. However, most people will turn up their stereos louder than what they would willingly do with the stock speakers in an effort to get more sound. This causes the small 10 watt amplifier to start distorting. The distorted signal is played through your new speakers and sounds like ass. Thus the person will claim that their new speakers suck.

The solution, as I'm sure someone has already stated, is to send your new speakers more power. You can upgrade your head unit or get an external amplifier. Any head unit has limitations as to how much power it can send your new speakers. They will help the current problem but not completely solve it. An external amplifier will do the best job of powering your new speakers.