Possibilities going N/A
- Thread starter 5speedP5
- Start date
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
so my 03.5 p5 already has a forged crank, and the pistons have been worked?
I had been thinking not so long term plans of Jspec pistons or custom forged pistons raising the compression just a little. I dont know what I would have to do with that to do it safely but would this actually be helpful>?
I mean real real long term is a partial N/A buildup with small boost application making 200-215 at the wheels. so forged may be better all around.
I had been thinking not so long term plans of Jspec pistons or custom forged pistons raising the compression just a little. I dont know what I would have to do with that to do it safely but would this actually be helpful>?
I mean real real long term is a partial N/A buildup with small boost application making 200-215 at the wheels. so forged may be better all around.
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
has anyone had their crank knift edged etc???
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
knift edge...yeah i need to learn how to type proper. knife edge
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
No problem green...
P5sundevil, little is known about what Mazda did to the connecting rods for the MSP prepped FS-DE's...I briefly read in a press release on the pclub that Mazda of Japan changed the pistons and connecting rods last minute with slightly redesigned pieces before the MSP' were shipped to Callaway...They were simply to allow for more even compression of boosted air/fuel, and for a more efficient flame kernal/expansion...It is not known if they are stronger, or if they added any benefit at all on the NA proteges, it was simply a last minute decision...
Currently the FS is by far one of the strongest (in terms of strength, not power) economy car engines on the market...Most newer engines are made out of aluminum, the FS is not...Some new engines will not tolerate more than a few bounces off of a limiter, the FS will...The engine can take a lot of abuse from Turbo's and revs...The connecting rods are the weakest link...After the 2nd gen 626's went under (98 was their last year I believe) the FS recieved a forged crank, and some other balls that made it much better than it use to be (namely the newer ignition system)...
So P5sun, don't drop the idea of raising the compression becuase of your different pistons...obviously the pistons didn't do a whole lot...The FS-DE (T) in MSP's still does not make 10hp/1psi, which is less than the going rate for the aftermarket systems...and most of those systems were dyno'd on pre 02.5 protege's...
Twilight, I don't know of anyone having the crank knife edged...It potentially could free up a lot of wieght, but I don't know how much our crank weighs anyway...could be good and light already...
P5sundevil, little is known about what Mazda did to the connecting rods for the MSP prepped FS-DE's...I briefly read in a press release on the pclub that Mazda of Japan changed the pistons and connecting rods last minute with slightly redesigned pieces before the MSP' were shipped to Callaway...They were simply to allow for more even compression of boosted air/fuel, and for a more efficient flame kernal/expansion...It is not known if they are stronger, or if they added any benefit at all on the NA proteges, it was simply a last minute decision...
Currently the FS is by far one of the strongest (in terms of strength, not power) economy car engines on the market...Most newer engines are made out of aluminum, the FS is not...Some new engines will not tolerate more than a few bounces off of a limiter, the FS will...The engine can take a lot of abuse from Turbo's and revs...The connecting rods are the weakest link...After the 2nd gen 626's went under (98 was their last year I believe) the FS recieved a forged crank, and some other balls that made it much better than it use to be (namely the newer ignition system)...
So P5sun, don't drop the idea of raising the compression becuase of your different pistons...obviously the pistons didn't do a whole lot...The FS-DE (T) in MSP's still does not make 10hp/1psi, which is less than the going rate for the aftermarket systems...and most of those systems were dyno'd on pre 02.5 protege's...
Twilight, I don't know of anyone having the crank knife edged...It potentially could free up a lot of wieght, but I don't know how much our crank weighs anyway...could be good and light already...
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i'll have a chat to my cam guy - he does cranks as well. might take me a while to have a decent chat to him because i'm not going that way for a while, but when i can i'll let everyone know. i'm sure there is a lot of weight to be saved from the crank....
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
hey guys...yet another update :
have taken the cams and most stuff outta my car. head and intake manifold will come off tomorrow (i need to buy a hex socket to get the head off on monday). tuesday i'll be taking the head to the porting guy and yay!!!!! i'll definately be re-installing the head and new cams on the weekend of 18-19th october.
and my original cams are now for sale : http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33899
have taken the cams and most stuff outta my car. head and intake manifold will come off tomorrow (i need to buy a hex socket to get the head off on monday). tuesday i'll be taking the head to the porting guy and yay!!!!! i'll definately be re-installing the head and new cams on the weekend of 18-19th october.
and my original cams are now for sale : http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33899
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If you combined turbocharging with some engine work not insane crap like on real race cars but minor stuff like: pistons,cams,intake manifold, port-polishing, bolt-on parts etc. and Nitrous how much performance do you think one would yeild out of our p5's? I have to admit turbocharging seems to be the best way to get major power for one's $ but the problem with that is that you have to get forged pauter rods for the 2.0L motor if you plan on running higher boost or sustainnig higher revs. And that is mad expensive it almost cost as much as buying another turbo kit each rod is like $720 and one would have to buy 4 so that would be mad $$$$ like about $2,880 and that's w/o shippin I think
Internals
Internals
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
it's all what if's, but in NA the P5 could put out 200whp with a lot of work
PROTEGE_ES
Member
isn't it true that if you go turbo, you shouldn't do work to your engine? I heard that if you go turbo, intakes, 2.25" exhausts pipings, cams, and headers will make you loose power.
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
well a header will be replaced by the exhaust manifold and a 2.25 exhaust can work for systems running 5 psi or less, 2.5 would be better, hiboost would be around 3.
cams and other things internal wont hurt you when u go boost, you just have to keep in mind that you do plan to get a turbo eventually and therefor adjust the specs properly.
cams and other things internal wont hurt you when u go boost, you just have to keep in mind that you do plan to get a turbo eventually and therefor adjust the specs properly.
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
yes if you're planning on going turbo, ie me, engine work can still be of great benefit...because it's still a case of getting more air into the engine....you just need to tune the engine properly for turbo when it was originally tuned for NA. but i'm getting a stand alone ECU from haltech eventually so tuning will be much much easier.
flat_black
Member
Twilight, when're you gonna post some pics of your newly ported head? I want news, dammit! 
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i'm getting the head back on monday if damn mazda finally sends the head shop the correct valve stem seals.
will take some piccies for everyone and i'll write up a bit of a speel saying my impressions etc etc
i just cant wait to dyno the damn thing!!!!
will take some piccies for everyone and i'll write up a bit of a speel saying my impressions etc etc
i just cant wait to dyno the damn thing!!!!
I, having a 1.8 pro, am concerned with the availability of parts and research. Being rather uneducated in the realm of engines, how much of the specifics apply to the 1.8?
Btw, reading this thread with GREAT interest. I am thinking along the lines of NA buildup with a turbo as "icing on the cake" as someone once posted...
Btw, reading this thread with GREAT interest. I am thinking along the lines of NA buildup with a turbo as "icing on the cake" as someone once posted...
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i beleive the 1.8 is simply a de-stroked 2.0L engine, so pretty much all parts are the same....
in relation to power possibilities, unfortunately there isnt much NA support compaired to FI. to get any real power with NA you're going to have to do things yourself - like get custom ground cams, get the head ported, intake manifold made up etc...there are a lot of ways to go
in relation to power possibilities, unfortunately there isnt much NA support compaired to FI. to get any real power with NA you're going to have to do things yourself - like get custom ground cams, get the head ported, intake manifold made up etc...there are a lot of ways to go
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
The fact of most of the FS aftermarket being geared towards FI, it sucks that the ECU segment is going the cheap route...Most kits available only provide simple tricks to fool the stock ECU...
IMO this is the main reason the FS is regarded as a terrible NA engine...There are fundamental properties of it that make it appear as a not so perfect platform for all engine, but no one has really tried with a good standalone...I know there is at least decent power to be made NA...Exactly how much is still up in the air...but the fact of the stock ECU being fine for 7-8psi of boost or whatever makes a lot of people just claim that FI is the only way to go...If BOTH required a standalone, those people would probably claim the engine isn't a good platform for anything...
The FS is a decent engine, albeit old, but still good for adequate power...If we can get over 200bhp NA (roughly 170whp) on the stock displacement, which would be a bhp/Liter rating of over 100, it would not be a bad NA performer by any sense of the statement...and I bet with good research and smart investments it could easily be done...
IMO this is the main reason the FS is regarded as a terrible NA engine...There are fundamental properties of it that make it appear as a not so perfect platform for all engine, but no one has really tried with a good standalone...I know there is at least decent power to be made NA...Exactly how much is still up in the air...but the fact of the stock ECU being fine for 7-8psi of boost or whatever makes a lot of people just claim that FI is the only way to go...If BOTH required a standalone, those people would probably claim the engine isn't a good platform for anything...
The FS is a decent engine, albeit old, but still good for adequate power...If we can get over 200bhp NA (roughly 170whp) on the stock displacement, which would be a bhp/Liter rating of over 100, it would not be a bad NA performer by any sense of the statement...and I bet with good research and smart investments it could easily be done...
