Please read, CIA vs K&N...

Lets put this CAI vs. K&N thing to rest.

Buy a CAI or just slap on a K&N?

I have a K&N right now that I can slap on, however and still considering the purchase of a $250.00 CAI. Everything Ive learned about engines and how they perform optimally would point me in the direction of the CAI.
How does an engine benefit from ingesting hot air? While Im not thrilled about forking out $250.00 for some mandrel bet pipe and a filter, the bottom line is cooler air = more HP. I actually felt a power loss on my old PR5 with the K&N once the engine warmed up. I know turning up the boost = more power than just adding a CAI or cone filter, how ever I believe the combination of the two is the optimal way to go. Here is fact; if you are running too much boost with a substandard intercooler you will also loose HP. More hot air makes less power then less cooler air, efficiency is the key. Im thinking CAI, front mount intercooler and 10psi and full exhaust will = more power then running a K&N in the hot engine bay, 12psi into a small intercooler sitting next to a hot radiator running threw hot plastic pluming. I know every one is bitching about forking out the $250.00 clams for a CAI, but I do believe cool air ingestion is will prove beneficial in generating more HP, especially those of us in the Hot weather. So what if you have to try and avoid puddles, I usually avoid them anyway. Im personally not looking for the least expensive way to generate inconsistent power; Im looking for the best & most efficient way to make consistent power. I hate the fact that my car runs great when its cool, then falls on its face once it warms up. What are you thoughts on this? Kwiktsi, ARG7 and anyone else who wants to contribute to this thread with out flaming. I know there are a few of us who have had other heavily modified turbo cars that can interject past engine building experiences to clear this mess up. Remember, no flaming please! Lets put our heads together and figure out what mods will work best on our MSPs.


Thanks,


(attn) (group) (mspo) (thumb)
 
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Central Intelligence Agency? I think you mean to say CAI right?(hand) Because the CIA might actually have some helpfull technology but I am certain they aren't going to use it to help you and your MSP.

I say go CAI.....It looks good and can only help. It's just a question of how much.
 
I'm just concerned myself about any water that may collect down where the filter sits (I looked down there the other day after it rained and it was wet). The reason I say this is because with the vacum the turbo creates, I just don't want any water 'pulled' into the filter...I assume a turbo'd car would pull more air than a NA car...Mine hasn't gotten here yet, but I already ordered an Injen...
 
here's all I know........

I'm 'now' boosting to around 9.5 psi, using a K&N, resolved the stumbling issue, and today, my custom (no exhaust) pipe is being installed (sounds sooooo good). It runs so strong, I cannot believe it. Linear acceleration, and everything! A little beast, for sure. Corey waxed a stock WRX last Friday night with this setup (minus the K&N)! Ask him about that little contest.

Corey (MemphisRacer) is addressing the intake issue with a longer intake pipe which puts the filter out closer to the left headlight, and away from the cooling fan. As it is now, however, I am stoked!!! (rockon)

Is an Injen CAI in my future? Unlikely.
 
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I'm also worried about hydrolocking the motor. It has happened to a few people I know with CAIs. It rains a lot here in South Florida, and many places get flooded. I don't think I would ever get a CAI. Would rather not have the extra 2hp, with that great of risk.
 
Thanks, sorry about the CIA, its been a long weekend. AGR7, whats the weather like in you neck of the woods? I think the stumbling will remain in hot weather where hot charge temps keep the car running rich. ARG7, I know youre excited about your recent gains but how excited will you be if you be when the weather warms up and your car doesnt run as well. Consistent power is the most rewarding type. Hit the gas in any weather and go with out worrying about how the car will behave.
 
TURBO3WAGON said:
Thanks, sorry about the CIA, its been a long weekend. AGR7, whats the weather like in you neck of the woods? I think the stumbling will remain in hot weather where hot charge temps keep the car running rich. ARG7, I know youre excited about your recent gains but how excited will you be if you be when the weather warms up and your car doesnt run as well. Consistent power is the most rewarding type. Hit the gas in any weather and go with out worrying about how the car will behave.

It's warm and humid here in the Memphis area. The stumbling is gone, with the basic fix Joe (kwiktsi) did. The K&N helped, but it was still present - sometimes worse than others. Lately, I was getting damned fed up with it. No problem now!
 
That is another thought I had, moving the filter closer to the headlight VIA longer plumbing. I just cant swallow the idea of that fan spewing hot air into my intake.
 
TURBO3WAGON said:
That is another thought I had, moving the filter closer to the headlight VIA longer plumbing. I just cant swallow the idea of that fan spewing hot air into my intake.

Why Hell's Bells!!! My K&N has been on my baby since February!! (chair)

That fan generally only kicks on while sitting at a drive thru waiting for my lunch. It ain't that big of a deal, really.

Here's Corey's first intake.......

47b3db24b3127cce97c6c653501e0000001610


That design is being improved on.
 
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It was 94 this weekend in Fort Myers, and I felt a huge diffirence in the way my car runs & shifts early morning vs. hot afternoon. Even the shifting feels notchy in the heat vs. cool weather.
 
It must be hotter where I am cause my fan comes on quite frequently, if fact its on at every light I stop at. Im not a big CAI fan either, but there has to be a better way then a cone filter in a hot engine bay.
 
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Yeah I feel the same s*** in my car in the afternoon. In the morning my car is up and going and when the temps get to 87 and above, it seems to loose a little power unless I let it sit for a couple of hours.
 
Hotter does affect Turbo/supercharged cars......

No question. My buddy here at work with a 2000 F150 Lightening talks a great deal about the decreased performance of his 12.5 second 'Rocket Truck' when the weather gets warm. It effects all turbo/supercharged vehicles. Warmer air is the enemy.

But.......$250.00 for an intake? If I were racing, maybe. I'm not going to the dragstrip, ever.

I will most likely, do the longer pipe intake, though.
 
Thats exactly what Im talking about! Dam that hot Miami weather. I think a front mount would greatly help the situation. We need to keep out charge temp down. My friend solved this problem with a Apexi front mount on his 60 haltech 94 RX7. If you touch the intercooler even in the heat it would feel cool. Try that with our intercoolers and see what happens.
 
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Gee, From what I saw on other dyno runs an open element K&N was HURTING power not helping it. That's on the dyno and not the psycological effects mods have on our feable little brains. The CAI does much more than just draw in cold air. It also gets a much more direct path to the turbo. Look at all the bends associated with the stock setup, it's typical OEM crazy.

The right setup on these will simply be CAI, FMIC, 9.5 PSI and kill the Cats. The rear section of the exhaust is not a restriction, the thing is 2.375" so going to 2.5" is a waste and 3" is necessary above 400HP, not around 225-250HP. Besides if you look at the S pipe right off the turbo, that's the most restrictive point of the entire system, and it's tiny.

Then again, what the hell do I know, I've only been tuning turbos for 16 years.

The CAI bashers are simply CHEAP. They'll waste counless hours trying to make something from nothing, and then spend $75-$100 on dyno runs to see if it actualy did something. When they could have just dropped the cash in the first place.

It's a new car and shouldn't be cheapened up adding crap. Put on nice quality stuff that's made for the car and you'll be happier in the long run.
 
AGR#7 said:


It's warm and humid here in the Memphis area. The stumbling is gone, with the basic fix Joe (kwiktsi) did. The K&N helped, but it was still present - sometimes worse than others. Lately, I was getting damned fed up with it. No problem now!

Did you order the FP kit or just remove the weather strip? I am losing track of who has ordered what and I am trying to keep track of the results :).
Joe
 
Not to thread jack here, but...

I'm getting the Injen and am not at all concerned about the hydrolock issue. Why? The thing is fairly well protected from the elements under normal wet driving conditions. If you're too worried, you can always do a custom splash-guard in the fenderwell or get the Injen shield attachment to block off a problem area.

Back to the subject... IMHO, no matter how much the turbo heats the intake air, cooler air in should result in cooler air out which can only help the interooler do its job...resulting in a cooler charge. We can argue hp gains all day, but to me it's best-practice methodology, and only one small step in improving the performance of the car.

Peace...(hippy)
 
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