P5 Ecu Tweaks

[big_ben]

Oh yeah, one last thing. No one has actually proven that the MP3 has a higher fuel dump than the stock protege. The only way that I know that we are running rich is from all the soot on the exhaust tip and I've seen Linux's air/fuel gauge and it is all the way on the rich side. If anyone in a stock Protege or a P5 that has a air/fuel gauge we would know for sure. If anyone has one let us know. I'm curious about that also. If the stock pro is not as rich as ours, then that means we probably have advanced cam timing also.

 

[70]

Woody - I thought the treads were on here but they are over on a different site.

Here is one about ECu upgrades that'll have some answers maybe: http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6485

This thread is about the S-AFC in particular:
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5937

big_ben - No worries about being in a bad mood. No offense taken here.

 

[big_ben]

I hated Physics! I like the stuff in Phy 1, but Phy 2, E&M, Optics, Thermodynamics, I'd rather have my fingernails ripped out than go through that again. But as for the cam timming, I'm not sure on that one. I said something about it in my last post. That's my best idea about that. From everything I've learned about this car, it's the advanced "spark" that gives the hp. The muffler might give .5hp at the crank.

 

[70]

I hated Physics! I like the stuff in Phy 1, but Phy 2, E&M, Optics, Thermodynamics, I'd rather have my fingernails ripped out than go through that again. But as for the cam timming, I'm not sure on that one. I said something about it in my last post. That's my best idea about that. From everything I've learned about this car, it's the advanced "spark" that gives the hp. The muffler might give .5hp at the crank.

Yeah, I never said the muffler actually helped. It was just supposed to flow better than stock.

Anyhoot, over on the other Protege board there is a bunch of stuff about these questions. I will post the links to the threads that I think are relevant and might be able to answer some questions. Then again, I running into hour ten on my second 12 hours day in two days and I might not be awake anymore.

So here it goes,
Some dynos for the exhaust cams and a few other mods:
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5554

Some dyno stuff with just intake cam in it:
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

And some stuff about the exhaust:
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5096

This is all on a Protege ES 2.0 liter I think. Crap I forget, read through it all and you'll find some pretty good info. I plan on getting my car dyno'ed some time soon, I will remember to ask the questions about this when I go.

 

[Woody]

Big_Ben - Are we talking about the Yahoo ProtegeTech (Techtalk) forum? And thanks for the re-assurance. I just got called some things over there that I'm too much of a gentleman to repeat here.

Big_Ben, TRobbins, others -

Again, is there an after market device to advance timing to match the MP3? Or would this be a programmable ECU ? For Sport-Bikes "Factory Performance", and other companies make a Timing Advance "Rotor" - a round gear like object, and it replaces a "gear-shaped" assembly in the pulse coil generator. But I don't know that much about cars (obviously). Anyway, any clarificiation would be appreciated. Maybe we can figure this out together.

- Woody

 

[big_ben]

I was talking about protegeclub.com. I also had the same feeling about protegetech.com also though. As for the ECU. I think it's unable to be reprogrammed. If it can be, it would be too expensive for the small gains you would see. I was trying to sell my ECU about 3 weeks ago but I think I'm going to try it out with the turbo first. If I still want to sell it I'll be sure to let you know. I've heard about something from AEM, but I think it's a while before it will be available.

 

[Woody]

StuttersC,

Thanks I'll start looking thru these links. I think there are delays here in the forum postings between when people reply, and I post something new.

Anyway, I have heard on another forum that the Jet V-Force is a waste of money.

I've heard from a RX7 tech/buddy of mine that custom programming (which is the Jet ECU "Upgrade" that they are kicking around) is a good option for the atleast 2nd gen RX7's. I'd be curious to see how Jet does in reprogramming an ECU. I guess I'd be skeptical since their V-Force product seems to suck.

If you happen to hear back on how well Jet re-programming works on the other forum, please shoot it over here too if you think of it.

Thanks StuttersC, and everybody for the interesting replies.

- Woody

 

[Woody]

StuttersC,

Damn, there is a lot of messages to go thru on these threads to get to the numbers. I know I'm whimping out, but it looks like the gain for the intake cam was about 10 hp for these guys, which seems close to what MazdaSpeed posts on their web site. What was the gain with exhaust cams? (I'm not too interested in exhaust can, or after-market exhaust pipes, but I am interested in the gain from J-spec exhaust cam replacement.)

Thanks in advance if you can summarize this. If not I'll get back to pouring thru the posts on protegeclub.com when I have more time.

Thanks in advance.

- Woody

 

[70]

Um, I think he really only got another two or three out the exhaust cam.

But I think the main point is that even the stock Protege runs rich. So it would make sense that the MP3 runs a little richer than that.

The reason for the piggy back on the stock Protege would to be advance the timing a little and lean out the mixture a little to make it run slightly better, and make a little more power.

From that I would be willing to bet that the MP3 could probably handle a little more timing advance without any issues.

I think that pretty much sums up that.

The exhaust thread was mostly saying that the stock Protege exhaust isn't really a full 2" off the first cat. The inside diamete is more like 1.75" which is where the first real restriction is in the exhaust. The first cat actually flows pretty well (per Bell Engineering) and the flange can be made larger on the bottom side to except a 2" pipe.

There is another section farther down stream that chokes the exhaust again just before the muffler. Opening the exhaust up to a full two inch exhaust will be really good.

 

[Woody]

StuttersC,

OK.

I missed the part about the piggy-back or mis-read it. Who makes the Piggy-back unit? Or is this the Jet re-programming fo the ECU that they were kicking around?

- Woody

 

[70]

StuttersC,

OK.

I missed the part about the piggy-back or mis-read it. Who makes the Piggy-back unit? Or is this the Jet re-programming fo the ECU that they were kicking around?

- Woody

Here is one about ECu upgrades that'll have some answers maybe: http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/sh...=&threadid=6485

This thread is about the S-AFC in particular:
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/sh...=&threadid=5937

They are talking about both. The Apexi S-AFC is a piggy back unit. The Unichip deal is a piggy back unit. And the Jet performance thing is a re-program of the exsisting/current Protege ECU.

I guess for the Jet deal you send them your ECU, they re-program it and send it back to you.

The Unichip has to be tuned on a dyno, and must be installed by a Unichip vendor (check your local listings?), and the S-AFC should be tuned on a dyno as well, but is a little easier to hook-up. You just need the wiring diagram for the car.

Unfortunately the big question is if any of these will really work or be worth the money. The Unichip has a 100% money back guarentee if it doesn't work. The S-AFC might work, according to Apexi it will. And the Jet deal no one is sure about.

 

[big_ben]

The S-AFC doesn't work at WOT. The ECU takes over.

 

[70]

The S-AFC doesn't work at WOT. The ECU takes over.

That's where the debate as really taken off.

Appearently the ECU goes into open loop mode at WOT. The Apexi S-AFC (according to Apexi) only works when the ECU is in open loop mode.

So, the ECU runs in closed loop until about 4000 rpm or so (maybe) at which point it'll switch over to open loop. The open loop mode is where the timing really get's screwy and it goes rich. This is where they want to change things anyway.

So, supposedly it will work on the Protege, and work only where people want to change things anyway.

Quoting from the threads previously mentioned (and if memory serves me correctly), in closed loop the ECU takes information from the O2 sensor in the exhaust, and the throttle postion senor (TPS). It uses that info to run the fuel and timing. In open loop mode it uses the MAF and looks at the TPS. So, the S-AFC I think taps into the MAF input and that is why they think it'll work.

I think that's right, I forget, it's all in those threads that I previously mentioned in my very last post.

 

[big_ben]

My only knowledge of the S-Afc is from what I've read that others have stated. If it does work at the RPM range you say it would be very good. It would be a very good mod for anyone with an MP3. It might give them anywhare from 5-10hp. But I don't want to spend my money to find out. If you will buy it for me I'll test it out. haha

 

[70]

My only knowledge of the S-Afc is from what I've read that others have stated. If it does work at the RPM range you say it would be very good. It would be a very good mod for anyone with an MP3. It might give them anywhare from 5-10hp. But I don't want to spend my money to find out. If you will buy it for me I'll test it out. haha

That's the other problem. people aren't sure if it'll work and don't want to go through the hassle yet.

Oh, and how about this deal?? We go halvesies and I'll test it. If it doesn't work you can have it.

 

[Woody]

StuttersC,

Thanks for condensing this down for me. I'll read thru this stuff later (got to get back to work). I'm not doubting anything, but I'm very surprised that the stock Proteges run rich. Just about every new Japanese sportbike coming to the US is set lean to conform to emission standards. (Which of course causes performance problems, roll-on hesitations, and as I recall is actually harder on the engine that being a bit rich.) So anyway, it just surprises me the are programmed out of the factory to run rich.

- Woody

 

[big_ben]

I liked my deal better.

 

[70]

I liked my deal better.

Ahh, party pooper. I figured you would.

Woody - No problem. I think what I put was right, but as I am not awake anymore, my memory is questionable. If you see I miss quoted feel free to let me know.

 

[spoolinmp3]

Perhaps you would be interested in this........................

http://www.superchips.co.uk/car/icon.htm

This was posted by Stou on the F/I forum recently

 

[20ESGUY]

I know that the s-afc is a little schetchy, but what about the powercomader FC by apex-i. That seems like it would do the trick.