OK...Who else thinks religion is total Bullsh!t?

[mp5]

If there is a god who is all-knowing, all powerful, etc why would he create the universe or man? He would already know the outcome before he ever created it. Did you ever tape a football game only to have a friend tell you what happened? You don't want to watch it after that. Now imagine your friend didn't just tell you what happend, but told you everything about the game, every second, every nuiance, every wisp of wind, what would be the point in watching the game?

But, if the universe as created by the "big bang" theory, and life just happened due to coincidence, then what caused the big bang? objects at rest, stay in rest unless acted upon by a force. What would cause all the matter in the universe to just magically start moving away from itself?

 

[LinuxRacr]

In time, all truth is revealed. That is all.

 

[DrummingFrenzy]

For those who belive, please explain this bumper sticker.

God gave up his son to save you.

Where did he go? Hell?

Please Explain.

You asked, so I'll tell you.

We believe that 2000 years ago God sent his son to earth through a virgin named Mary. His name was Jesus. Jesus brought the truth to all people by telling them of God's love and his ability to forgive them of their sins. Jesus was persecuted for his belief and eventually was sentenced to death. He was beaten and spit on. They took a whip with pieces of bone tied into the ends and whipped his back until it was nothing but mangled flesh. Then they placed a crown of long thorns on his head and pressed it down upon his head until he bled. After all of this they made him carry his own cross of heavy wood up to a hill called Mount Calvary. There they laid him down upon the cross and drove nails into his hands and feet. The nails were about the size of railroad stakes. Then they stuck the cross into the ground letting his full weight hang off of the stakes. There they cursed his name and spat at him some more. After he hung there for a while one of the soldiers came up and ran him through the side with a spear. There he died. He was buried in a tomb and laid there for 3 days. When he died he went to hell and obtained the keys to life and death. He did this so that we, who are born into sin can be forgiven. He took the blame and punishment so we don't have to. His blood was shed so that every man would have a chance at life. Only by forgiveness of our sins are we able to go to Heaven. Are there some Christians who lie? Are there some who are hypocrites? Yes, being a Christian doesn't make us better or different from anyone else. Except for the fact that we are aware of our sins and have asked for forgiveness. I was born a sinner but God has forgiven me through the blood of Jesus Christ. If you think that Christianity is all false just because of what you've seen some TV preacher do or someone who claims to be a Christian in the news do, then you're missing something. You're placing your faith in men. Like I said, men fail. Once you become a Christian doesn't mean you're perfect. There are people out there that will claim to be Christian, but do not live as a Christian should. Why? Because they're human. No, put you're faith in God. He is the one who will not fail you.

After 3 days Jesus rose from the grave after having defeated death and the grave. There he commanded his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Then he descended into Heaven on a cloud of glory.

Sound far fetched? If I heard it likes this, over a message board, I think it would to me too. Yet, I have seen the evidence of this like I said in my previous posts. I have seen it and felt it. Just like nmaino said, it is by faith that I believe what I believe.

 

[1sty]

1. It baffles me that so many people call various religions BS when they know virtualy nothing about them.
Having an idea of how a religions diety may appear physicaly does not mean you are even close to understanding that religion.

2. In an situation where someone denies a relgions authenticity without being deeply knowledgable of that religion, it comes down to someone basicly saying they refuse to believe in a god. PERIOD!
It has nothing to do with any religion. Getting sent to church as a child does not make someone deeply familair with a religion.

3. Religion is NOT reposible for any war!
That is mans interpertation and mans choices that lead to violence. A belief structure formed houndreds if not thousands of years prior to a conflict can not be blaimed. Its bulls***. Religion is blaimed for violence by people unwilling to accept reality and blaim.

4. A person does not simply believe what they grow up with or what they are taught. Some may, but most of the time that is because they too believe it. I was taught NOTHING. Never did I go to church or have an religious influence at home. My belief structure was created by me for me.

5. Religion in many ways may be very accurate however is only limited by the concepts the human mind can grasp.
Take space as an example. No one in the days in which many religions began could believe we exist in nothingness. Space is vastly nothing! This isn't an easy concept to grasp especialy given how little we know about it.

 

[1sty]

You asked, so I'll tell you.

We believe that 2000 years ago God sent his son to earth through a virgin named Mary. His name was Jesus. Jesus brought the truth to all people by telling them of God's love and his ability to forgive them of their sins. Jesus was persecuted for his belief and eventually was sentenced to death. He was beaten and spit on. They took a whip with pieces of bone tied into the ends and whipped his back until it was nothing but mangled flesh. Then they placed a crown of long thorns on his head and pressed it down upon his head until he bled. After all of this they made him carry his own cross of heavy wood up to a hill called Mount Calvary. There they laid him down upon the cross and drove nails into his hands and feet. The nails were about the size of railroad stakes. Then they stuck the cross into the ground letting his full weight hang off of the stakes. There they cursed his name and spat at him some more. After he hung there for a while one of the soldiers came up and ran him through the side with a spear. There he died. He was buried in a tomb and laid there for 3 days. When he died he went to hell and obtained the keys to life and death. He did this so that we, who are born into sin can be forgiven. He took the blame and punishment so we don't have to. His blood was shed so that every man would have a chance at life. Only by forgiveness of our sins are we able to go to Heaven. Are there some Christians who lie? Are there some who are hypocrites? Yes, being a Christian doesn't make us better or different from anyone else. Except for the fact that we are aware of our sins and have asked for forgiveness. I was born a sinner but God has forgiven me through the blood of Jesus Christ. If you think that Christianity is all false just because of what you've seen some TV preacher do or someone who claims to be a Christian in the news do, then you're missing something. You're placing your faith in men. Like I said, men fail. Once you become a Christian doesn't mean you're perfect. There are people out there that will claim to be Christian, but do not live as a Christian should. Why? Because they're human. No, put you're faith in God. He is the one who will not fail you.

After 3 days Jesus rose from the grave after having defeated death and the grave. There he commanded his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Then he descended into Heaven on a cloud of glory.

Sound far fetched? If I heard it likes this, over a message board, I think it would to me too. Yet, I have seen the evidence of this like I said in my previous posts. I have seen it and felt it. Just like nmaino said, it is by faith that I believe what I believe.

Well put, one thing though. the spikes have to go through the wrists not the hands. The hand will not support weight. THis is a historical inaccuracy which in many ways is not uncommon given the numerous times the bible has been redrafted from language to language falling proper interpertation.

Another such example of much debate is the use of the word "virgin" which its hebrew counter part may have in that time ment simply young women. In that case does Jesus's life, actions and love mean any less. Hell NO! It simply means the spirit of god was blessed onto a human child. I see nothing wrong with that view or possibility either.

A fun fact on christanity, sin and forgiveness is that Jesus most loyal fallower as many believe was Mary Magdelan (spelling) who in many accounts was a prostetute before being a fallower. I believe she was also the first to see jesus's resurection as she was praying by his tomb. Correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[mp5]

I believe all religions are corrupt simply because they were created by man, and man at his core is egotistical and self-serving. I think the bible, koran, or any other religious document is corrupt simply because it was written by man. I think religions started across cultures as a way to explain the basic questions of where man came from and what happens after we die. Most religions, from Pagans to Chrisitians have a similar creation story and a similar explanation to what happans after we die. Somewhere along the line they all seem to go astray and end up being a doctrine of how to live. I think that part was a way for man to try to gain some control of the chaotic and violent world in which we live. If God gave us free-will, why would he want to limit it by some doctrine of what a "good" life is? Or at least, why would he appear as a burning bush that dictates to Moses the ten-commandments? Again, I don't think he did. I think man created those doctrines as a way to gain control of the society in which he lived.

 

[1sty]

I believe all religions are corrupt simply because they were created by man, and man at his core is egotistical and self-serving. I think the bible, koran, or any other religious document is corrupt simply because it was written by man. I think religions started across cultures as a way to explain the basic questions of where man came from and what happens after we die. Most religions, from Pagans to Chrisitians have a similar creation story and a similar explanation to what happans after we die. Somewhere along the line they all seem to go astray and end up being a doctrine of how to live. I think that part was a way for man to try to gain some control of the chaotic and violent world in which we live. If God gave us free-will, why would he want to limit it by some doctrine of what a "good" life is? Or at least, why would he appear as a burning bush that dictates to Moses the ten-commandments? Again, I don't think he did. I think man created those doctrines as a way to gain control of the society in which he lived.

You are not considering religion you are considering only Mens actions based on religion.

Consider some questions:
What is the similar creation story of most religions?
What is wrong or self serving about the 10 commandments?
Why would a god want for people to be wicked to each other simply becuase they are free of mind?

Religion is not corrupt becuase it is written by men, it may be inaccurate but not corrupt.

Paganism is a good example to look at. As Moses was recieving the commandments what did many of the Jews become? Pegans. This is an example that people are more apt to believe what is easy and apparent not what is supernatural. It is MUCH easier to keep people inline by saying I will kill you if you, ect. Hannarabi's code is an example of this. Gettig people to fear an invisable man in the skies wrather is not the easiest or even close to the most effective way to maintain order.
There is much more to religion then law and rules.

 

[DrummingFrenzy]

Well put, one thing though. the spikes have to go through the wrists not the hands. The hand will not support weight. THis is a historical inaccuracy which in many ways is not uncommon given the numerous times the bible has been redrafted from language to language falling proper interpertation.

Another such example of much debate is the use of the word "virgin" which its hebrew counter part may have in that time ment simply young women. In that case does Jesus's life, actions and love mean any less. Hell NO! It simply means the spirit of god was blessed onto a human child. I see nothing wrong with that view or possibility either.

A fun fact on christanity, sin and forgiveness is that Jesus most loyal fallower as many believe was Mary Magdelan (spelling) who in many accounts was a prostetute before being a fallower. I believe she was also the first to see jesus's resurection as she was praying by his tomb. Correct me if I am wrong here.

Ah yes, thank you for the correction. I was aware of this but typed hands just to get the point across easily. It was Mary Magdelan who saw him first. She was forgiven of her sins and she was no worse in God's eyes than the next person. God doesn't seperate sins into bad, somewhat bad, and really horrible. It's all just sin. Good words 1st Mp3.

 

[1sty]

Ah yes, thank you for the correction. I was aware of this but typed hands just to get the point across easily. It was Mary Magdelan who saw him first. She was forgiven of her sins and she was no worse in God's eyes than the next person. God doesn't seperate sins into bad, somewhat bad, and really horrible. It's all just sin. Good words 1st Mp3.

I still love that I was never once exposed to realigion by may family yet I know more about the bible and christantiy then my girfriend that went to sunday school, took communion ect.

Just last night I found out she didn't even know who Lott was or that there was incest in the bible.

I simply will not except someone outright deniying any truth of any religion when they know so little about it.

 

[mp5]

What is self-serving about the ten commandments? I don't want you to kill me, so i will create a commandment that thou shall not kill, I don't want you to sleep with my wife so I will create a commendment thou shall not commit adultry. I don't want you to take all my food so that I starve, so I will create a commendment thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.

thousands of years ago, when there was no explanations for lighting, earth quakes, droughts, eclipses, etc, I think it would have been pretty easy to get people to believe that there was an "invisable man in the skies", that he had a temper and if you pissed him off he was going to detroy not only you, but your entire culture. Therefore, if you wanted to live, you had better follow these rules to keep him happy.

 

[1sty]

To be truely self serving it must benefit you alone. Thou shall not kill is hardly self serving becasue its bad if you are killed. Murder is hardly a good thing and in no way self serving.
Adultery leads to far to many negative things in human nature including impact apon other peoples families and the chilren invovled in that marrage. It is wrong not because I don't want you to bang my wife. Self serving would be, thou shall not kill me. Or my wife shall not commit adultery. Self serving means it is benefit to yourself, not benifit of everyone.

It was not easy to get people to believe that EXCEPT when those events were occuring. Worshiping that which is not visable or touchable is not an easy thing to get people to belive especial in a world where most religions have independant gods that associates directly to each of those events. Even then most cultures ignored there gods and there societies laws.

 

[DrummingFrenzy]

It has nothing to do about keeping God happy. God created a world, and at first it was a perfect world. It didn't have earthquakes or hurricanes. Then sin came into the world, yes, through Satan. Sin corrupted men and the world. God doesn't necessarily make an earthquake happen when it does. He created a world and it operates on it's own. Water on the earth precipitates, condenses, and eventually falls back to the earth as rain. God doesn't say, "Ok, I think I'll make it rain here today, and snow there." He let's the earth operate as it was created. He didn't create the ten commandments to suit himself. He created them to give us an example of how to live. Which is another reason why he sent Jesus. He was an example in how we should live.

I agree with you 1st MP3. How can you teach or tell people about something that you yourself know nothing about?

 

[1sty]

It has nothing to do about keeping God happy. God created a world, and at first it was a perfect world. It didn't have earthquakes or hurricanes. Then sin came into the world, yes, through Satan. Sin corrupted men and the world. God doesn't necessarily make an earthquake happen when it does. He created a world and it operates on it's own. Water on the earth precipitates, condenses, and eventually falls back to the earth as rain. God doesn't say, "Ok, I think I'll make it rain here today, and snow there." He let's the earth operate as it was created. He didn't create the ten commandments to suit himself. He created them to give us an example of how to live. Which is another reason why he sent Jesus. He was an example in how we should live.

I agree with you 1st MP3. How can you teach or tell people about something that you yourself know nothing about?

Well put and this is a funademental missunderstanding about most monothiestic religions. They rarely attribute natual occurances with religion. Its not like The greeks that hav ea god of water and another of lightning. Natural occurances are not used to reinforce a gods disaprooval in just about all of todays major religions. Again, learn more about a religion before shunning it.

 

[mp5]

Just because something benefits others doesn't mean it isn't self serving. I don't think that anyone can argue that railroads didn't have a signifcant, and benficial part in the development of the US, but the RR tycoons didn't create them to help others, only to make money off of them. So while committing adultry has an impact on others, the bottom line is I don't want my wife cheating on me.

 

[1sty]

Just because something benefits others doesn't mean it isn't self serving. I don't think that anyone can argue that railroads didn't have a signifcant, and benficial part in the development of the US, but the RR tycoons didn't create them to help others, only to make money off of them. So while committing adultry has an impact on others, the bottom line is I don't want my wife cheating on me.

Your negating the flip side.
Not being able to commit adultry is not selfserving becuase it limits your actions aswell as others. You recieve no benefit others don't. To be self serving you would have to be unlimmeted.

In the railroad situation the "tycoon" has gained something everyone else will not. See the diference.

The 10 commandments do not give a superiority position or exclude anyone, nor benifit anyone over another. All are equal in them so the are in no way self serving except in a societal sence.

 

[BSN_mt]

You miss the meaning of the post. It clearly says that god gave up his son. If he went to heaven after he left the cave, then he would be with god. Or is god not in heaven? Please correct me. If god is in heaven, then how did he give up his son?

 

[DrummingFrenzy]

God is in heaven. When they say he gave up his son they're meaning because God let this happen to his son. God could have called of the angels in Heaven to whisk Jesus up and out of there before he was killed, but he didn't. He gave him up to the enemy so that we might be forgiven. Then he rose from the dead, ascended to Heaven to the right hand of the father. Which is God.

 

[benzero]

wow. this is such a long thread i can't bear to read it.

 

[kc5zom]

Well put and this is a funademental missunderstanding about most monothiestic religions. They rarely attribute natual occurances with religion. Its not like The greeks that hav ea god of water and another of lightning. Natural occurances are not used to reinforce a gods disaprooval in just about all of todays major religions. Again, learn more about a religion before shunning it.

Hmmmm... The great flood, crap catching on fire, Pat Robertson blaming a bunch of hurricanes/earthquakes in a given year on God's anger with us for being so naughty.

 

[1sty]

PAt Robinson has nothing to do with the bible or religious history.
Again you are interpreting a religion based on its so called fallowers actions.
Also I said "rarely" not "never", it takes something truely unusal to be attributed to god. The flood is a good example where there is evidence of a great flood in that area in which most everything would have been barried in water. Again it takes a truely spectacular natural event to be seen as gods work.

As for fire, which fire? Saddamon and Gamore? Surely you don't think the destruction of an entire city by fire is a everyday event.