Ok, to start.... earlier in the year my engine blew up in my msp. My cousin told me that I could modify a 2001 626 motor to work in my MSP as they are the same basic engine. So I bought the engine, connected it all up to my msp, and tried to start it. The car started for one-quarter of a second then would just keep cranking. After about ten seconds of cranking, the car would backfire (very loudly). My uncle said that he thinks the timing is off on the donor engine. Does the 626 engine have different timing that a MSP, or what do you guys think the problem is. Also, there is one lead from the transmission that is not connected, as I cannnot find where to put it. It has a connection lead-end that looks exactly like the end link for the knock sensor. Please help!
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New to site... problem with 626 engine swap.
- Thread starter Chad92
- Start date
Spiced MSP
Member
- :
- 2016 Peterbilt 579
I have heard the cam gears are different. So the cam sensor migh have a problem reading the pickups. Im not 100% on that though, so don't quote me on it. Hopefully someone else can chime in soon and clarify that
Spiced MSP
Member
- :
- 2016 Peterbilt 579
welcome to the forum by the way
The 626 utilizes one cam gear pick up (home reference signal) instead of the 3 that the Protege uses. So essentially you're timed for a 36-1+1 with the 626 where as a protege uses 36-1+3. It's actually a common mod people do when they want to run sequential injection on standalones (drilling out existing cam gears or picking up 626 cam gears) either way that's your problem.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
wait...its not the cams...its the cam gears, right? Use the MSP cams, with MSP cam gears...with the 626 engine and head...you could use the 626 cams, but they're probably the older even more mild grinds used in the 118hp FS engines...but either way, the cam gears are the important part...the MSP ecu can't read the 626 cam gears properly...Also, are you using the MSP's cam position sensor? I'm not sure which 626 engine you have...some 626's did not have a cam position sensor in the same location as the MSP's...the cam position sensor has to be mounted on the exhaust cam gear (on the valve cover)...if your 626 engine doesn't have a sensor hole in that spot, swap the valve cover from the MSP engine over...a cam position sensor in any other area won't work with the MSP ecu...
So just to clarify, as this sort of confused me...you should be using your MSP cams (if they are in good shape), MSP cam gears, MSP cam position sensor and the MSP valve cover...unless the 626 valve cover has the sensor hole in the same location...its the 626 car your engine came from that determines all this stuff...i know you said 2001 626, but if you got the engine from a wrecker...that info may not be accurate...
lastly...as it wasn't pointed out, but should be ok...the crank position sensor and crank pulley should be from your MSP also...some 626 FS engines used an elipitical blade style crank pulley, instead of 'teeth' like the MSP...if they are identical, use either...but the MSP ecu and sensor won't read that crazy blade thing right, either...
if the MSP cam gears are shot or something, i have a bunch of extras laying around...
So just to clarify, as this sort of confused me...you should be using your MSP cams (if they are in good shape), MSP cam gears, MSP cam position sensor and the MSP valve cover...unless the 626 valve cover has the sensor hole in the same location...its the 626 car your engine came from that determines all this stuff...i know you said 2001 626, but if you got the engine from a wrecker...that info may not be accurate...
lastly...as it wasn't pointed out, but should be ok...the crank position sensor and crank pulley should be from your MSP also...some 626 FS engines used an elipitical blade style crank pulley, instead of 'teeth' like the MSP...if they are identical, use either...but the MSP ecu and sensor won't read that crazy blade thing right, either...
if the MSP cam gears are shot or something, i have a bunch of extras laying around...
- :
- Banned For Being A Troll
Can you please send me a detailed picture of the 626 cam gear off of the cam once you have the time?
wait...its not the cams...its the cam gears, right? Use the MSP cams, with MSP cam gears...with the 626 engine and head...you could use the 626 cams, but they're probably the older even more mild grinds used in the 118hp FS engines...but either way, the cam gears are the important part...the MSP ecu can't read the 626 cam gears properly...Also, are you using the MSP's cam position sensor? I'm not sure which 626 engine you have...some 626's did not have a cam position sensor in the same location as the MSP's...the cam position sensor has to be mounted on the exhaust cam gear (on the valve cover)...if your 626 engine doesn't have a sensor hole in that spot, swap the valve cover from the MSP engine over...a cam position sensor in any other area won't work with the MSP ecu...
So just to clarify, as this sort of confused me...you should be using your MSP cams (if they are in good shape), MSP cam gears, MSP cam position sensor and the MSP valve cover...unless the 626 valve cover has the sensor hole in the same location...its the 626 car your engine came from that determines all this stuff...i know you said 2001 626, but if you got the engine from a wrecker...that info may not be accurate...
lastly...as it wasn't pointed out, but should be ok...the crank position sensor and crank pulley should be from your MSP also...some 626 FS engines used an elipitical blade style crank pulley, instead of 'teeth' like the MSP...if they are identical, use either...but the MSP ecu and sensor won't read that crazy blade thing right, either...
if the MSP cam gears are shot or something, i have a bunch of extras laying around...
The cams used on the 2000-2002 626 are identical to the 2001-2003 cams. If he feels his cams are better maintained then sure but it's not required. Also the 626 valve covers for those years have the same mounting locations for the cam position sensor as our proteges the only difference on the cover is the mounting locations for the ignition coils.
I've never heard of differences between crank pulleys. Do you know the years that have the blade style compared to the "teeth" style. I've only done research on the 2000-2002 FS-DE's seeing as they were the only 626 years reported to have forged cranks.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
^^cool dude. I was asking him to make sure because i know a lot of wreckers will DB their parts list, and the actual model years aren't always accurate...meaning, he may have been told he got a 2001 FS from a 2001 626, and they might not have been true...thats all...if he actually has a 2001 626 FS, everything is fine...
the eliptical blade crank pulley came on any FS engine that used a distributor, at least that i can verify...same with Kl v6 engines that were distributed...So pre 98 626, mx6, probe base models, etc...all had this goofy crank pulley...and you can see it on various websites that sell underdrive pulleys for FS equipped cars...RR-Racing UDP's had both types, and it created problems for guys on probetalk swapping FS engines from various different years...
its likely this was just a pre 98 issue, as 98 was when distributors were dropped...but i cant confirm that for sure...and yeah, from what i've seen, >99 was when Mazda switched the FS to a fully forged crank...Also, in 98, the FS updated to solid lifters from the previous HL's...which are far superior strength wise...but require adjustments every so often...
the eliptical blade crank pulley came on any FS engine that used a distributor, at least that i can verify...same with Kl v6 engines that were distributed...So pre 98 626, mx6, probe base models, etc...all had this goofy crank pulley...and you can see it on various websites that sell underdrive pulleys for FS equipped cars...RR-Racing UDP's had both types, and it created problems for guys on probetalk swapping FS engines from various different years...
its likely this was just a pre 98 issue, as 98 was when distributors were dropped...but i cant confirm that for sure...and yeah, from what i've seen, >99 was when Mazda switched the FS to a fully forged crank...Also, in 98, the FS updated to solid lifters from the previous HL's...which are far superior strength wise...but require adjustments every so often...
Ok, so I do not have to change the cams out completely and I have to change out is the gears? Wont changing the cams fix the problem because they already have the correct gears on the cam shafts, or are yal saying the cams/timing are not actually the problem?
And i did transfer over the sensor along with the valve cover, but I was not aware that the cams/gears needed to be swapped out. But I still have the old block so I can do so. Gives me a chance to do the timing belt and water pump anyways.
And i did transfer over the sensor along with the valve cover, but I was not aware that the cams/gears needed to be swapped out. But I still have the old block so I can do so. Gives me a chance to do the timing belt and water pump anyways.
Last edited:
Spiced MSP
Member
- :
- 2016 Peterbilt 579
the cams will be fine. The cam gear is the problem.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Chad, you'd have a hell of a time properly installing the cams with the gears already on them...the oil seal would be nearly impossible to 'push' into the thrust cap evenly...and the cam gear slightly blocks the thrust cap bolts...
anyway though...no...if you have cams in the head right now that are in good enough shape...it'll be fine...what we're saying is the MSP cam gears are designed for the MSP sensor and ECU...the 626 cam gears are not...thats all...the MSP cam gears have 3 little magnets on the outer edge, just inside the teeth...those are what the sensor reads...there is no 'intake and exhaust' cam gear...they're identical..but need to be installed a specific way for the intake and exhaust cams, in order for the engine to be timed correctly (this effects BOTH cam timing and ignition timing, as the cam sensor is part of ignition triggering iirc)...
to install them properly...each cam gear has a little boomerang like thing in the middle...if looking at the timing belt end of the engine...with no timing belt, and no cam gears installed...Turn the intake cam inside the head until the dowel pin is at 12 o'clock...at that location, the lobes for cylinder #1 (the first 2 lobes on the cam from the dowel pin) should be pointing towards the firewall...the exhaust cam, same thing with the pin location...but the first lobes should be pointing towards the front of the car...roughly 180 degrees from the intake (its not exactly 180, but doesn't matter, thats just a reference)...if for any reason the cam lobes aren't aligned in this fashion, something is totally wrong...and you may've switched intake and exhaust cams by accident...
now...for the cam gears...for the intake...place the cam gear on so the boomerang fits over the pin and leaves the 'unpinned' sleeve pointing towards the firewall...not towards the radiator...for the exhaust cam, the opposite...fit the boomerang thing over the pin so the other part is pointing towards the radiator...with both cam pins at 12 o'clock...you only have 2 ways to put the cam gears on...one is correct, the other is not haha...
once the cam gears are on, you can torque the bolts down...at the 3 oclock position of the intake cam, and the 9 oclock position of the exhaust cam...you'll see a small line marking...those need to be pointed directly at each other (think of an invisible flat line through both cam gears) as you fit the belt over them...all while the crank pulley woodruff key is at the 12 o'clock position...its easiest to fit the belt on everything from the crank, to idler bearing, to exhaust cam gear, to intake cam gear, to tensioner...it doesn't have to be that way, but that worked the best for me recently...
if all those markings properly line up once the belt is on...the engine is properly timed...if you used the MSP cam gears...the ecu will properly read that timing...and if you still have problems; neither of these are the issue...
anyway though...no...if you have cams in the head right now that are in good enough shape...it'll be fine...what we're saying is the MSP cam gears are designed for the MSP sensor and ECU...the 626 cam gears are not...thats all...the MSP cam gears have 3 little magnets on the outer edge, just inside the teeth...those are what the sensor reads...there is no 'intake and exhaust' cam gear...they're identical..but need to be installed a specific way for the intake and exhaust cams, in order for the engine to be timed correctly (this effects BOTH cam timing and ignition timing, as the cam sensor is part of ignition triggering iirc)...
to install them properly...each cam gear has a little boomerang like thing in the middle...if looking at the timing belt end of the engine...with no timing belt, and no cam gears installed...Turn the intake cam inside the head until the dowel pin is at 12 o'clock...at that location, the lobes for cylinder #1 (the first 2 lobes on the cam from the dowel pin) should be pointing towards the firewall...the exhaust cam, same thing with the pin location...but the first lobes should be pointing towards the front of the car...roughly 180 degrees from the intake (its not exactly 180, but doesn't matter, thats just a reference)...if for any reason the cam lobes aren't aligned in this fashion, something is totally wrong...and you may've switched intake and exhaust cams by accident...
now...for the cam gears...for the intake...place the cam gear on so the boomerang fits over the pin and leaves the 'unpinned' sleeve pointing towards the firewall...not towards the radiator...for the exhaust cam, the opposite...fit the boomerang thing over the pin so the other part is pointing towards the radiator...with both cam pins at 12 o'clock...you only have 2 ways to put the cam gears on...one is correct, the other is not haha...
once the cam gears are on, you can torque the bolts down...at the 3 oclock position of the intake cam, and the 9 oclock position of the exhaust cam...you'll see a small line marking...those need to be pointed directly at each other (think of an invisible flat line through both cam gears) as you fit the belt over them...all while the crank pulley woodruff key is at the 12 o'clock position...its easiest to fit the belt on everything from the crank, to idler bearing, to exhaust cam gear, to intake cam gear, to tensioner...it doesn't have to be that way, but that worked the best for me recently...
if all those markings properly line up once the belt is on...the engine is properly timed...if you used the MSP cam gears...the ecu will properly read that timing...and if you still have problems; neither of these are the issue...
Last edited:
Spiced MSP
Member
- :
- 2016 Peterbilt 579
doesn't get any more clear than that lol
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