New Mazda 2. Somewhat new to Autocross
- Thread starter c7scayman
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flatlander937
Member
- :
- '11 Mazda2 Sport
The Miata isn't a B-spec car. There is a Spec Miata class... and the spec springs and dampers for them are completely awful and is the reason they are so terrible to drive daily.
There are several here who run/have run the B-spec kit, or just the Bilstein coilover kit(which is same thing, slightly different valving depending on how old the kit is IIRC. They are now identical I believe to the Mazdaspeed kit? Someone step in here...) just fine as a daily driver.
Then again I've been to Philly and the roads absolutely suck so that may be a bit different.
I don't have the BSpec on the car anymore, I passed it on, and it's coming back to me. But you can get a good idea on how it feels with the 500s on the car with what I've got on it now. Warminster is a tough lot, Wells Fargo us a nice site. A lot of the Philly guys come up to MetLife for the NNJR events. AC is about 90min from me also but the SJR guys are a tight knit group and put on a good show so I like to support them when the schedule allows.
We'll be up at MetLife the 27th if you want to come up...It's the last event on the site before the NJ Pro. We're Expecting a huge turnout.
We'll be up at MetLife the 27th if you want to come up...It's the last event on the site before the NJ Pro. We're Expecting a huge turnout.
Yup, Same kit...Designed by Eibach using Bilstein damper technology and Eibach springs. You can buy it a la carte from Madzdaspeed or as the entire kit for a BSpec build... Stiffer 2.25" race springs than the autox kit, comes with billet front upper bearing seats to convert the stock upper mount to be able to seat the race springs, billet upper rear shock mounts, custom bump stops and inverted rear shocks. All alloy strut and shock housings. Only thing you'll need is rear spring adjuster perches which can easily be sourced and fabricated. I think it's an upgrade for the Autox kit, but it's non adjustable. Valving is definitely better than the street kit, and is perfect for a budget regionally competitive car.
Yeah my first autocross was at Warminster. It was really tough on my Boxster. There was so much loose gravel and weeds on the road. I slid and ran into the cones in my last run. I have not tried any other autocross course.
Where do I register for that? Is it on motorsportreg.com?
Zach@DDMWorks
Member
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- 2011 Mazda2
Off, as soon as the inside rear tire lifts off the ground the stability control goes crazy.
What tires are best for stock wheel sizes in HS class? It seems like the best option on Tirerack is the Yokahama S.Drive. I had those tires on my Porsche and I thought they were good.
The S. Drives with Kosei K4R wheels and a rear sway bar will cost me $1200 including shipping. I wonder if I should do this now before my first event with this car on the 19th, or just wait until my stock tires actually need to be changed by the end of Spring. I originally wanted the Enkei RPF1's, but they are way too expensive.
The S. Drives with Kosei K4R wheels and a rear sway bar will cost me $1200 including shipping. I wonder if I should do this now before my first event with this car on the 19th, or just wait until my stock tires actually need to be changed by the end of Spring. I originally wanted the Enkei RPF1's, but they are way too expensive.
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flatlander937
Member
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- '11 Mazda2 Sport
Do at least 1 event stock, you'll appreciate the changes even more. Better tires will cover up bad lines/speed maintenance more than crappy ones.
Its all about the driver. I've raw timed several C5 Corvettes when I had just a sway bar and crappy tires. Focus on driving most.
Its all about the driver. I've raw timed several C5 Corvettes when I had just a sway bar and crappy tires. Focus on driving most.
Treadwear has to be exactly 200 or at least or at most 200? I think the S.Drive tires have a 300 rating.
Edit: Never mind. I found it in the rules manual. It needs to be at least 200.
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flatlander937
Member
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- '11 Mazda2 Sport
Yep. If you're on anything but the extreme performance summer 200TW tires its not competitive basically.
The RE11s are probably the best daily driver/auto-x compromise. Direzza Z2SS, Hankook RS3V2, Bridge stone RE71R, BFG Rival S, and the 200TW version of Toyos R1R will be the ones to choose from for best performance. Each with different compromises and strengths.
The RE11s are probably the best daily driver/auto-x compromise. Direzza Z2SS, Hankook RS3V2, Bridge stone RE71R, BFG Rival S, and the 200TW version of Toyos R1R will be the ones to choose from for best performance. Each with different compromises and strengths.
From the looks of it, the OP is pretty new to autox. Given that is the case, I want to remind the OP that especially for a beginner, the loose nut behind the wheel (ie. Mr. OP) makes a far greater difference than any other mod you can do to the car.
I understand the desires to mod and improve the car, and I completely agree that the stock tires on the car will not win you any races at all. But at least for now, resist the urge to proceed with any major / costly modifications. If you must, just buy some high performance 195/50/15 tires (ie. one of the TW 200 ones that Flatlander937 has mentioned) and call it a day for now. That'll roughly work out to be a $500-ish investment, and you would be much better off investing the rest of your autox budget on yourself with some sort of performance driving school -- preferably an autox specific driving school.
Another reason to refrain from modifying your car now is because you want to familiarize yourself with the rules first. Without being familiar with vehicle classing, a seemingly cheap and harmless mod might send you and your 2 straight into a hugely expensive and likely completely uncompetitive class (eg. interior delete). You want to figure out what aspects of your car is not performing up to your standards, and check where (ie. which class) those modifications will take you. Very generally speaking our 2 proceeds up the modification ladder in the following manner:
H Street (formerly H Stock) --> STF - Street Touring FWD --> FSP - F Street Prepared --> SMF - Street Modified FWD
IMO, the sweet spot in terms of competition is STF. The car has been proven to be highly competitive, and the class allows for a wide enough range of changes that will make the car fun to drive without being overly expensive. But at the end of the day, you are free to choose whichever class you want to play in.
Have fun, and I hope you will stay in the sport for many years to come!
I understand the desires to mod and improve the car, and I completely agree that the stock tires on the car will not win you any races at all. But at least for now, resist the urge to proceed with any major / costly modifications. If you must, just buy some high performance 195/50/15 tires (ie. one of the TW 200 ones that Flatlander937 has mentioned) and call it a day for now. That'll roughly work out to be a $500-ish investment, and you would be much better off investing the rest of your autox budget on yourself with some sort of performance driving school -- preferably an autox specific driving school.
Another reason to refrain from modifying your car now is because you want to familiarize yourself with the rules first. Without being familiar with vehicle classing, a seemingly cheap and harmless mod might send you and your 2 straight into a hugely expensive and likely completely uncompetitive class (eg. interior delete). You want to figure out what aspects of your car is not performing up to your standards, and check where (ie. which class) those modifications will take you. Very generally speaking our 2 proceeds up the modification ladder in the following manner:
H Street (formerly H Stock) --> STF - Street Touring FWD --> FSP - F Street Prepared --> SMF - Street Modified FWD
IMO, the sweet spot in terms of competition is STF. The car has been proven to be highly competitive, and the class allows for a wide enough range of changes that will make the car fun to drive without being overly expensive. But at the end of the day, you are free to choose whichever class you want to play in.
Have fun, and I hope you will stay in the sport for many years to come!
I'm not that much of a beginner. I used to track my Boxster at NJMP raceway and I started out with a racing instructor. My racing instructor won many SCCA events in the 1990's with his 93 RX-7 R1 before he started circuit racing in NJ with his Corvette Z06. In my first autocross two years ago, I was the fastest in my class, CSP, for that event. At Speed Raceway Indoor GoKart center in Horsham, PA and Cinnaminson, NJ, I am consistently scored in the 99th percentile (In around 1500th fastest out of 150,000+)
I understood most rules about autocross and CSP class back in 2013, but since I sold the Boxster, stopped racing, and focused on graduate school, I forgot most of the rules. Now I am getting back into cars and racing. I fully read the SCCA rule book yesterday so now I think I have a good understanding of the HS class.
Even though this is only my 2nd autocross and my first autocross with a Mazda 2, I am aiming high for the win. The reason why I bought a Mazda 2 is so that I can autocross it. I am prepared to spend some money on making it handle better. Although I do have a good amount of racing experience, I am still learning about the mechanics and concepts behind different suspension/tire setups. In my old Boxster, I mainly focused on power and little on suspension. I had cat-bypass mid pipes and a cat-back exhaust that saved 40 lbs of weight (11whp claims). I had an underdrive pulley (7whp claims) and a cold air intake (8whp claims). And I had H&R lowering springs and Yokahama S. Drive's .
Oh I know. I bought the car in February. It snowed here in Philly about 5 times since then. With my slightly worn out all season tires, I can barely get around in 1" snow.
By the end of this summer, I plan to replace the tires and get a set of snow tires to mount on my stock steelies. And I will use the autox rims and high performance summer tires for summer.
It's great that you already have some solid motorsports experience. With that out of the way, I'd re-iterate the comment I made earlier that your next logical step is to figure out where (ie. which class) you want to play in with your Mazda2. Again, IMO, STF makes the most sense since I think that is where our cars are most competitive, and the modifications allowed by the class makes the car a whole lot more fun to drive in general. So I'd recommend you to read up on the class rules for the Street Touring class, and anything specific to STF as well (eg. wheel and tire width limits). You want to do this before you start spending money because if you have already invested in certain mods for one class and then decide to move into the other, you will very likely have to re-spend more money on the same thing again. Case in point -- wheels, tires, and suspension. HS-legal wheels are probably not going to help you win in STF, and while HS allows for strut / damper upgrades, you would have to re-do the whole suspension (strut + springs or coilovers) if you want to win in STF.
Good point.
Yeah for now its HS. I looked at the standings. The top 5 drivers in HS have Ford Fiesta ST's. How can those cars be allowed in the HS class? They have sport suspensions and 197hp stock. I will definitely move to STF for next year. I will try hold off on performance tires and wheels until then since they are the biggest investment in this project. I do want wider wheels and tires in the future so STF would make sense. For now in the HS class, all I can do is axle back exhaust, performance drop in air filter, and one sway bar.
Yeah for now its HS. I looked at the standings. The top 5 drivers in HS have Ford Fiesta ST's. How can those cars be allowed in the HS class? They have sport suspensions and 197hp stock. I will definitely move to STF for next year. I will try hold off on performance tires and wheels until then since they are the biggest investment in this project. I do want wider wheels and tires in the future so STF would make sense. For now in the HS class, all I can do is axle back exhaust, performance drop in air filter, and one sway bar.
It's funny how things work with SCCA vehicle classing. The RSX Type S, for example, is a G Street class car whereas the Fiesta ST is H Street. But the moment you apply ST-legal mods to the car, the RSX Type S falls back into STF, while the Fiesta ST gets sent straight to STX.
By the book, the proper way to get things done is to apply for an SCCA membership, and then write to the SEB to protest the Fiesta ST classing. For many of the more casual people, however, this is too much trouble for what it is worth.
This is why I always have a love and hate relationship towards the SCCA SEB.
By the book, the proper way to get things done is to apply for an SCCA membership, and then write to the SEB to protest the Fiesta ST classing. For many of the more casual people, however, this is too much trouble for what it is worth.
This is why I always have a love and hate relationship towards the SCCA SEB.
