need some input about a tuning situation

[Cherryvodka]

Cheapest thing to do is to port the IWG yourself.

 

[08SPEED3Veteran]

how tough is it to put a cat in?

 

[Saskatchewan17]

Buy a 3 inch cat, have it put in by an exhaust shop.... If you really want to make power though, I'm telling you man, just invest in an intermediate turbo upgrade. A reworked K04 would solve all your problems.

 

[08SPEED3Veteran]

ive decided what im going to do...when it gets nice out im going to get the externally wastegated manifold from pg and the tial 38mm wastegate. I will weld the factory wastegate shut and then get the car tuned again. (obviously tuned for safe boost and maximum drivability). by no means am i trying to brag or be an ass when i say this but i do have the money to purchase this part and its well worth it to me. being single in the military after a deployment has some perks. Its just easier to have the wastegate right on top for easy access and maintenance. eventually ill go all the way and forge it up and get a meaty turbo, but for now im happy.

 

[P&L Motorsports]

The electronic boost control CONTRIBUTES to creep rather than contains it, when you free up the exhaust side.

Properly configured (a definite challenge on this car) an MBC sets a rock solid upper limit and controls the spiking, too.

The rev limiter is still in place, boost cut is still there, since it's controlled of reading manifold pressure and shutting the throttle, load and fuel cuts are still present so, really, it's pretty safe, maybe safer than using the stock EBC on a flow mod car.

That said, it has take me a couple months to get the boost control working the way I want it to. The car poses challenges that other turbo cars do not, in this regard, due to how it's made.

You can not T a boost controller in using the typical method of plugging it into the boost nipple on the compressor and the other end into the wastegate. The nipple has a restrictor in it because the EBC is assisted and so, does not need full signal. You need to T the MBC into manifold vacuum, which is smarter anyway, as that's what the engine sees. However, where to T it in how much hose to use, etc. can affect results. I built a little 4 port manifold out of fittings I had lying around and T'd all my vac/pressure stuff off the BPV hose. That worked but, the MBC still needed to be ungated to finally control the creep and spiking.

I used a Turbosmart Boost T and I highly recommend it as the only MBC for this car.

FWIW... if the primary WGDC table is setup right, you won't spike. More often then not, its improper tuning of boost dynamics, R/T, and DBW that will always pose spikes. Where all three combined you can make the car do ANYTHING you want.

You "technically" can tune out a spike or creep on a DBW car simply by throttle plate mapping alone (read: don't open it all the way)....

But what fun would that be?

-Jorge

 

[08SPEED3Veteran]

Get a larger turbo.
You're always going to have boost creep issues with the stock K04 and a catless.
You could invest in a reworked K04. I know PG does them. The service costs around $500 I believe if you send in your own turbo for a credit.

I retract my last statement about the manifold...I just bought a used factory turbo from a forum member that i will be sending to PG for a reworking. Figures I should have listened to the moderator in the first place!

 

[djuosnteisn]

I just glazed over this thread real quick.

But already i'm thinking OP is confusing boost creep with boost spike.

The k04 is notorious for spike, but it can definitely be tuned out, even if it means resorting to closing the throttle slightly in the lower rpms during spool up. I've tuned spike out on several cars. And there are a few good threads on the subject in the forum i usually frequent.

There is absolutely no way in hell the k04 is creeping though. By 5500 rpm it's so out of breath, its near impossible to even get it to hold more than 17psi to redline.


Unless i'm way off base and the OP has an ATP bigger turbo (with mazda specific flange) and still running their horrible IWG, which will indeed creep badly (as i've personally experienced).


Also, OP get fuel pump internals quickly, their extrememly important IMO.

 

[08SPEED3Veteran]

I just glazed over this thread real quick.

But already i'm thinking OP is confusing boost creep with boost spike.

The k04 is notorious for spike, but it can definitely be tuned out, even if it means resorting to closing the throttle slightly in the lower rpms during spool up. I've tuned spike out on several cars. And there are a few good threads on the subject in the forum i usually frequent.

There is absolutely no way in hell the k04 is creeping though. By 5500 rpm it's so out of breath, its near impossible to even get it to hold more than 17psi to redline.


Unless i'm way off base and the OP has an ATP bigger turbo (with mazda specific flange) and still running their horrible IWG, which will indeed creep badly (as i've personally experienced).


Also, OP get fuel pump internals quickly, their extrememly important IMO.

already got the fuel pump internals so thats taken care of...its def boost creep that im experiencing. the waste gate cant pass enough exhaust due to its small diameter creating excess pressure in the turbo causing higher boost pressure constantly. I know because the cobb tuner diagnosed it as that and explained it

 

[Darth Vader]

the KO4 can indeed creeep like a mofo on a catless DP/RP + stock tune. It took me alot of fiddling with my MBC to finally tame it.

Every situation is different but, blanket saying a KO4 can't creep is wrong.

 

[djuosnteisn]

Crazy, i believe you guys, just never seen it.

What boost levels were you guys tuning for? The lower the boost, the more exhaust that has to bypass the turbine in order to regulate & the more likely for creep. I'm sure you guys prob already know this lol. How high was it creeping up to? Were you running into knock issues?

When i was running my k04 i was tuned for 19psi with wmi and saw wgdc values in the 50's ~ 60's. I think the only thing working in my favor i guess was my altitude (5500ft).

 

[djuosnteisn]

Oh, and thanks for putting me in my place! Sorry if i came off like an ass, i was just quick posting during lunch lol.

 

[08SPEED3Veteran]

Oh, and thanks for putting me in my place! Sorry if i came off like an ass, i was just quick posting during lunch lol.

you didnt no worries...its just good to make sure everyone understands exactly what is happening so that they can take the necessary steps to fix the issue. in my case im sending a used turbo to PG to be reworked (ported, polished, new bearings, and other cool stuff). better flow=no more creep

 

[djuosnteisn]

Most definitely. Are they going to clip the turbine wheel? Might help a bit too.

 

[08SPEED3Veteran]

yea PG ports and polishes the turbo, replaces the bearings, and clips the turbine. along with new seals and stuff