NA Tech Race to 100whp per 1000cc's

So I descided to settle with the 626 intake manifold, it fits my budget alot better. So that being said what is the best year 626 mani to get? The one that does not have the VTCS and different runners??

Also does anyone know how much more horse power difference there is between my stock manifold with VTCS removed and port and pollished, and the 626 manifold???
 
I hate to burst your bubbles but I don't think you will be able to get 250whp out of a kl n/a. Trust me I would love to see it done, because I love the kl motors. But I have been around them for awhile and the most I have seen is this guy named leo323 on probetalk. But he ended up running into oil pump failure at high rpms. http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701216756

Jeremy
 
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after reading a few posts in that thread, i think reaching 250whp wouldn't be all that difficult. he was using the stock ze bottom end, stock heads and cheap obx headers. i'd imagine with higher comp pistons, extensive head work and a proper set of custom headers, that hitting over 250 would be a snap.
 
Stock ze pistons are 10:1 how much higher can you go? do it then, he also has the most aggressive cams available and extensive standalone work. if it was so feesable everyone would have a 250+ whp probe/mx6. But like I said earlier I would love to see a kl put out 250+.
 
Stock ze pistons are 10:1 how much higher can you go? do it then, he also has the most aggressive cams available and extensive standalone work. if it was so feesable everyone would have a 250+ whp probe/mx6. But like I said earlier I would love to see a kl put out 250+.

ok before you start "bursting peoples bubbles"...

1) custom cam shafts. "most agressive cams available" are off the shelf items, and would be nowhere near the kinds of cams people are going to push. The most agressive cam shafts available for the FSDE are the JDM cams. Do you think I run JDM cams? god no... they put the JDM cams to shame.

2) 10:1 compression is nothing. 11:1 with the right setup would be a stroll in the park, and even 12 or 13:1 isn't out of the question with quality fuel...oh and then you can then run even MORE aggressive cams with no ill effects, due to the increased compression.

3) oil pump failures - there are external oil pump options. Even if that wasn't an option, custom fabricated oil pumps etc are an option.

4) KLZE as a platform is very capable. If 200whp can be got on a FSDE 2L GRANNY PACK engine (well, almost 200whp at least, 197ish is what install shield did), the KLZE should, given that it is a far more capable platform to begin with, be able to make 250whp easilly.

5) in most cases (not all, but most), people building performance engines neglect to design their manifolds correctly, instead going with off the shelf parts. Correctly designed intake manifolds and headers can yield tremendous results on just about any engine - but off the shelf aftermarket solutions are more geared towards stock fitment, and removing any requirement to modify/remove other parts. In a performance build this shouldn't be a consideration, so plenty of potential can be unlocked simply by decreasing pumping losses of the engine and leveraging resonant effects, and scavenging.

6) what the hell is "extensive stand alone work"? seriously - a stand alone ECU is a stand alone ECU. As long as it can fuel in real time at 9000 to 10000rpm (and i really don't think the KL guys need to go this far....certainly not to reach 250), then it'll do the job. True all ECUs are not created equal, but the ONLY bits that concern power is fuel delivery and timing control - all complete stand alone computers offer this....

I could go on, and on. But I won't. The reason why people don't do it is they either a) don't know how, and spend money on the wrong things, or b) its too expensive. NA buliding is very expensive, and power per dollar, you're always better off going forced induction. Which is what most people do. People dedicated to building pure all motor monsters are usually honda boys, or big V8 fans, because big numbers is easy power on these kinds of motors....

250whp will be challenging (nowhere near as challenging as 200whp on the FSDE, or 180whp on the FPDE), but nowhere near impossible. Hows about you provide some constructive information, instead of mouthing off that it can't be done because you have never seen it done.
 
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also, 250whp is probably not going to take 10 000rpm....
9000 should just about do it.

according to my calculations, 312 crank horsepower would require a VE at peak power of 107%, given a 0.50 BSFC....tune the engine properly, get the BSFC down to something like 0.45, and you only need 97%.

increase the redline by 500rpm, to 9500rpm and you only need 91%.

Rough calculations, not accounting for everything, I know, but from that perspective, its not only entirely possible, it shouldn't be overly that hard to do.

Stock rod ratio is unbelievable, so maintaining that kind of RPM wouldn't be difficult. Controlling detonation might be troublesome, and the KL has some valve float issues etc that would need to be addressed. The oil pump might not like it very much either - but with custom parts - its doable. Very doable.
 
"there has been couple NA racing engines in touring championships producing 300 (2.0l) to 400hp." <-wow...did any1 see that? a 300-400hp 2.0l engine. r they talking about the fsde?? pretty kool
 
No, I believe they are de stroked KLs. Either ways it pretty amazing.
 
They are not jdm cams, they are interprep cams and springs if you read the thread. No, I have read that thread and if you are going to build a car like Jerry Sica then do so I just think it will take an extreme amount of time and money to get to the 250+ whp platform with the kl motor.
 
They are not jdm cams, they are interprep cams and springs if you read the thread.
Are they off the shelf parts? if so they are designed for a specific configuration. Higher compression and bigger cams will yield bigger/better results.

By the way, i was talking about the FSDE not hte KLZE...the most agressive cams available are JDM cams.....doesn't mean they are the most crazy cams you can have, not by a long shot.

Off the shelf usually doesn't cut it....
No, I have read that thread and if you are going to build a car like Jerry Sica then do so I just think it will take an extreme amount of time and money to get to the 250+ whp platform with the kl motor.
you think wrong.

Sure it'll take money

but most important is knowhow.... given that the VE equation shows that it doesn't require much over 90% at 9500rpm, i'd suggest that it is relatively easy to do.

To date, tehre is only one 190+ hp street driven FSDE engine. It can be done. Just because everyone here doesn't have one, or didn't have one before it was done, doesn't mean that it cannot be done.

With the correct build, and the right selection of parts, and the right knowledge (so you do things exactly right the first time), its not going to be a problem.....

You really need to forget everything you THINK you know, and start doing some research into what exactly CAN be done.....
 
Well almost anything can be done, it just depends on how far some people will go to get there. And if you have access to alot of custom parts, money, and know how then your right it can be done. I'm not trying to argue with you and say it will never happen. I was just saying it might be tough.
 
No offense but your telling us something we already know. Yes it will be hard, yes its gonna cost more than a turbo setup, and yes we wont get as much HP per dollar. Its just a goal we are trying to achieve, a pretty good one and feasible one. Trust me, we got over the "its gonna be to hard" talk in the first couple pages.
 
The OBX and simillar headers are not going to support big horsepower, not as long as your bum points to the ground...they are just too damned short to be useful.

Best headers for an NA build are the headers you design and build (or have designed and built) for yourself - specific to your requirements and goals.....that way runner lengths can be tuned to provide optimum power right where you want it, not where some manufacturer thinks you should have it....in most cases, after market/off the shelf headers don't even CONSIDER performance when they design it...they consider stock fitment, pretty looks and so forth....so you end upwith uneven runners that are miles too short to do anything meaningful....
those mazda 2 piece ones look nice tho ;)
 
If anybody has twenty grand I'll get you a 360+hp 2.3l. Only problem is it would never pass any kind of emissions, runs on alcohol, and uses mechanical injection so it's not too fuel efficient. But it will run at 9k rpm all day.
 
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