NA Tech Race to 100whp per 1000cc's

[LordWorm]

So in escence you would need shorter rods or you would need a de-stroker crank right?

longer rods...

to get the ratio to stroke ratio up.

you can "long rod" the existing stroke by pushing the wrist pin up, but the gain isn't that high (mind you, this is all installshield did with his 190 something horse power protege).

By destroking, and going for longer rods, you are affecting both sides of the ratio - increasing hte rod length and decreasing the size of the stroke, making hte rod ratio go right up... 1.7:1 i think can be achieved on the 1.8L crank..


jamesk: to each their own - but in my opinion torque is for pulling caravans... with a high revving, FAST revving NA Motor, you'd be up and out of the torque hole so quickly you wouldn't even know it was there in the first place... and once a high horsepower engine gets its game on, its plenty fun.

There are also ways of recouping some of the lost torque, by pushing the midrange power up - cam timing, quad throtlebodies, high compression pistons, and head work...

 

[lil_red_wagon]

so, if i use CO2 to cool the intake and gas temperatures, it would be legal, since the CO2 isn't actually going into the engine, right?

 

[LordWorm]

so, if i use CO2 to cool the intake and gas temperatures, it would be legal, since the CO2 isn't actually going into the engine, right?

how you plan on doing this? wrapping a line around the intake pipe to pump the CO2 through?

creative way of doing this - will have to think about if it is legal under our rules or "fair" ....

you'll have to let me know exactly how you plan on doing it....if you wanna keep it secret, PM me and i can discuss with you.

 

[jamesk]

so there is no advantage in having torque? we cant use that to our advantage?

 

[LordWorm]

so there is no advantage in having torque? we cant use that to our advantage?

if you can build a high horse power, high torque, small capacity NA motor then by all means do it...

the issue though, is the age old "replacement for displacement" adage...

there is, infact, a few replacements for displacement, but the only one we are truely able to use is RPM...

by pushing the power band up into the top end (and a considerably higher top end than we have stock), you in have the unfortunate side effect of reducing torque...


in order to make a high power torquey NA motor, you'd need to be looking at fattening up the power curve... it may all be in the tune... My approach is to go for as much power as i can possibly make, then tune the curve down (using adjustable cam gears and adjustments to my IM and header design) so i nail the 200whp as early as i can.... but its still not going to be a torque monster.....it'll be comfortably drivable, but still fairly peaky.

remember an NA build is a matter of compromise - to get power, you need to sacrifice something else.

Some are getting around the problem by swapping to higher capacity engines. The KLZE will make its target ~250whp easier, and be alot nicer to drive - and the build may well turn out cheaper in the long run too (the FSDE will need to be so highly strung its not funny - so the KLZE will probably outlast it). I'd seriously consider the KLZE if compliance wasn't a problem around here....

 

[BinoMP5]

Hooray! KL-ZE is the way to go... but since my car just got hit by some fool doing donuts in my parking lot and drove off... i'm going to be behind than what i thought where i was going to be $3000 from now...

hopefully its true that the kl-ze swap is cheaper... thanks lordworm for all your input... so CO2 will make the car run better? i know a way to put co2(really cold CO2) in or around the intake...

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

This is what I'm thinkin I need.....(hump)

What do you while saving money for a build......
Research Research Research
And you come across stuff like this.

 

[LordWorm]

This is what I'm thinkin I need.....(hump)

What do you while saving money for a build......
Research Research Research
And you come across stuff like this.

nice,

you could fabricate some sort of L - shaped intake scoop, with the long part of the L over the IRTB's, and the short part of the L facing forward, and situation above the belt cover - make it a nice smooth corner, and you've got cold air IRTB's

 

[Tom03es]

So per Rule #2, if you destroke your engine and use the 1.8L crank, you no longer need to hit the 200whp mark right? You only need 180whp, right?

 

[BinoMP5]

ITBs = stereo system

This is what I'm thinkin I need.....(hump)

What do you while saving money for a build......
Research Research Research
And you come across stuff like this.

thatll be great... if you want your ears to bleed every time you drive...
ive heard S2000s with those at DYNOs and i couldnt handle it... i also used to drive with open exhaust...

itll sound loud and fast... even though your only going <20mph through Campus. its especially loud on low rpms... unless your staying in your higher RPMs, your going to need a louder Stereo system... unless u love it so much, the intake/exhaust is your stereo system

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

So per Rule #2, if you destroke your engine and use the 1.8L crank, you no longer need to hit the 200whp mark right? You only need 180whp, right?

Yes whatever the displacement. 100hp per liter

 

[BinoMP5]

100whp per liter... would lowering the stroke decrease torque?

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

if you want your ears to bleed ......

I want my ears to bleed......(laugh)

 

[LordWorm]

So per Rule #2, if you destroke your engine and use the 1.8L crank, you no longer need to hit the 200whp mark right? You only need 180whp, right?

sactly - but you'd probably go to town with the overbore (sleeve for saftey so you can push the boundaries of overbore) and make back a fair bit of displacement.

 

[LordWorm]

100whp per liter... would lowering the stroke decrease torque?

yes.
Big time.

lowering the stroke will gut torque, and increasing the rod length will help do that too.

But, torque is for pulling caravans - if you want a 200whp torque monster, turbo is going to be better for you....

however, you're going to the KL aren't you? you shouldn't overly need to muck around with stroke to get the target power....

 

[jeffmsp]

hey guys,

read through about 7 of the 17 pages lol

if it already hasnt been said, tripoint engineerings protege was ~240WHP which means the race to 100hp per litre is over.

pretty sure their 2.3l mazda6 car is putting down some serious numbers too.

I am also pretty sure you can get just over 200WHP with bolt on mods to the n/a 2.3 from cosworth on pump gas. If you added race fuel and a nice stand alone ems 230WHP could be easily attained with good tuning.

sorry if someone already said all this

jeff

 

[mazdaspeed777]

So there is no one making indipendent throttle body's for our cars is there? I would like to try and fabricate some. The hard part I think would be to just figure a way to make the throttle cable that ran all of them

 

[Tom03es]

if it already hasnt been said, tripoint engineerings protege was ~240WHP which means the race to 100hp per litre is over.

jeff

Yes it's been said. But this race is really directed more toward the independant- not a race shop with a huge bankroll backing them.

 

[StealthWyvern]

Yes it's been said. But this race is really directed more toward the independant- not a race shop with a huge bankroll backing them.

any idea on the parts used? or what ws done to the engine to reach that power?

 

[BinoMP5]

So there is no one making indipendent throttle body's for our cars is there? I would like to try and fabricate some. The hard part I think would be to just figure a way to make the throttle cable that ran all of them

that would be amazing... but ITBs are so hard to tune....... at least itll look better than a snail in the engine bay.. OH WAIT!! The ITBs would face towards the driver... how would you get ram air to it?? the hood? i was thinking about the Honda K Motors and how the ITBs are in the front... damn my car needs to be fixed so i can stop driving my bro's RSX S... its got power even before VTEC compared to my car, but it just doesnt feel right... especially the sound...

kinda makes you wish they couldve put 150 instead of 130HP... thats close to the newer Proteges/Familia...

would getting a bigger crank mean higher displacement? that gives you torque too huh? even though im going through with the V6... im just wondering... asking them now for other people's sake