My Speed6 Review

[CaptRB]

This is my review of the MazdaSpeed6 as it will appear on Epinions.

The new MazdaSpeed6 is a compelling entry from Mazda. Based on the Mazda 6 sedan, the speed 6 features is a 2.3 4 cylinder engine fitted with a turbo producing 274 HP and 280 Lbs of torque. This ample power is fed to a part time AWD system. Direct comparisons to the Subaru WRX and Legacy GT Turbo are common. It's also looking for buyers who might be looking the BMW's and Audi's with AWD system.

Appearance:
The Speed6 is a sweet looking Q car, only showing off it's power through subtle styling changes. The hood bulges higher to make room for the turbo and the cooling is fed through a gaping intake beneath the grill. The car looks aggressive, but not in a way that will draw too much attention. It looks a bit more fun than a Subaru Legacy GT for example, but perhaps a bit less refined as well.

Interior:
With sport models costing around 26K, this is an area where Mazda cut back. Even the higher end grand touring models are so-so inside with use of some cheap looking plastics. In spite of this I still feel the interior comes together nicely and the driving position is fine. Leg room in the rear is reasonable. The interior is lavish compared to a WRX or Mitsubishi Evo, but feels cheap compared to a Legacy.

Handling:
Wow! I've driven the Legacy GT, STI and newer 2.5 WRX and this car is somewhat more refined in it's handling. I can't say it's "far better" and some may prefer the Legacy's superb duality between luxury and enthusiast driving, but Mazda clearly worked hard on this. Feedback is excellent and I was immediately confident enough to push the car through some pretty aggressive maneuvers. While cars like the Legacy GT or WRX can do the same moves, I tuned into the Mazda's suspension and steering faster. Very well done. It's not an understatement to claim that the Speed6 handling is world class, at least as good as a Legacy GT, BMW 330XI or most of the Audi line up. Any belief that one is better is about your preferences as a driver more than anything else.

Transmission:
The Speed6 comes with only one transmission: a 6 speed manual. Sounds good but the clutch action is quite difficult to become accustomed to. If fact plenty of professional reviews comment that the car is hard to launch smoothly and 1-2 shifts are harder still. For Mazda this is a serious failure and a technical service bulleton was issued. Now, with the cooperation of a good dealer, some clutches have been replaced. Many were shocked that a company like Mazda would even release a car fitted with such a rough tranny. I've heard the latest cars were corrected, but they still lag behind other builders.

Engine/Power:
There's no sense in avoiding it. This engine has a serious flaw, so let's talk about it. I nearly bought a Speed6 until I read about Turbo seals failing almost right away on these cars. I went to the dealer and let the car idle for 20 minutes. Sure enough white smoke started billowing out. This was a 2007 with just 14K miles on it. Later I saw a 2007 with just 6K miles doing the exact same thing. One car I saw on the highway, dueling with an Audi, downshifted and sent up a white cloud as well. Then, while still searching for a car I found a second used 2007 also blowing white smoke. Do a search and you'll even see a video of the problem on Youtube! With hopes fading I contacted a Mazda service center and got a fairly honest person on the phone. "Off the record" he said that they had some issues with the turbo. Take that at face value. Maybe he owns stock in Mitsubishi! But I do think Mazda has a real problem with these cars and I was not able to get any indication that it's fixed on the newest cars. I can only wonder if the Mazdaspeed3's will also be effected.
This is all very sad because the Speed6 generates some serious torque at the low end, though power seems to fade quickly above 4500 RPM. Well driven, the Speed6 is capable of sub 14 second 1/4 runs in pure stock form. There's plenty of potential and many enthusiasts would be just fine with the power just as it is.

AWD System
I did not get to drive this car in rain or snow. This system is essentially a FWD car until slippage occurs. .

Summary:
Beyond the issues noted above, careful research also turned up problems with the car's computer and too many complaints about paint that was very easily damaged.
If Mazda had gotten this car right they might have had one of the best selling sports sedans in history. Folks who plan to heavily mod this car might buy one anyway, but I can't recommend it. It's such a shame because the car does so many things well; so much so that I nearly bought one. In the end I went with the new Subaru Legacy GT turbo and I'm glad I did. Still, I'll spend a grand making the GT handle the way I want, while the Speed6 was fine off the rack. To be fair, the GT is more expensive and if the turbo worry is dealth with, then the Speed6 is a pretty fun ride indeed.

Thanks for reading and good luck! (burnout)

Capt RB

 

[07MS6]

The hood bulges higher to make room for the turbo and the cooling is fed through a gaping intake beneath the grill.

No, it makes room for the IC. "gaping" intake? LOL these small ass slots are not "gaping"

While cars like the Legacy GT or WRX can do the same moves, I tuned into the Mazda's suspension and steering faster. Very well done. It's not an understatement to claim that the Speed6 handling is world class,

Sorry, I love my car and all, but it's nowhere near on the handling level of an EVO, STi, etc...


I stopped reading after this. Bad review.

 

[CaptRB]

Sorry, I love my car and all, but it's nowhere near on the handling level of an EVO, STi, etc...>>>

Bad review?
I have an STI sitting outside and I've driven the Speed6. The STI's amazing handling comes with practice. It can be a jittery and less than forgiving effort to tame the STI and get the most out of it. Handling confidence for the STI does not come right away, as it does with the Speed6. There's much more to handling than absolute numbers.
My point about the Speed6 is that it's handling comes much more easily and that it's quite refined, unlike the more raw STI. They are very different cars but I think you took the comparison far to literally.
As for my Legacy GT, it's more compliant than the Speed6, more refined and solid at high speed, but at times feels less precise in the twistys. Suspension mods and tires improve this, but the Speed6 has amazing handling off the rack.
The rest of my review is the point and focuses on the turbo issue. I do hope others will read it.

Good luck,

Capt RB

 

[Chris-BE]

AWD System
I did not get to drive this car in rain or snow. This system is essentially a FWD car until slippage occurs.

Capt RB

That would be incorrect.



This is a review of an 06 or an 07 as the 07 has the new clutch.

If it's 06 where did you find a new 06?

 

[CaptRB]

That would be incorrect.>>>


95-5% bias I believe. Quite different from the 5 or 6 speed Legacy for example. I am not saying that the AWD system on the 6 is not effective, but I do prefer the system used by Subaru.


<<<This is a review of an 06 or an 07 as the 07 has the new clutch.>>>

06 was selling at Hudson Valley with 14K miles on it. 3 other cars I've seen had the smoking problem. I've heard that the clutch issue has improved.

But my main issue was the turbo seal problem and that's why stayed away.

Has there been any indication that this is fixed? If so then I'd like confirmation as I still have a friend who's crying and dying to buy a Speed6, but is worried about the turbo issues. He's had his own experience with it.


Capt RB

 

[Karma_hunden]

Well, I have driven STi's and although they are raw to drive, they sure handle better than the Speed6. The MS6 handles great, way better than the legacy GT, but not as good as you put it to be IMO.

The "part" time system AWD you are talking about is somewhat true. The car distributes the torque 80% to the front and 20% to the rear. When "slippage" or full acceleration occurs, the car turns 50/50. However; it does not compare to the years of experience under the rally inspired, fully dedicated motor company called Subaru. Who has managed to turn the AWD system into perfection.

Turbo Seal issue. This, you got right. A lot of people have being having it, but ALL of the issues I have heard is AFTER they add an aftermarket exhaust, since they now enhanced the turboback exhaust by 3 inches (usual aftermarket diameter) and it liberates a lot of the gas restriction yet creating a release but no vaccumm--so the turbo seal won't seal.

I have owned my Speed6 since August of last year, it's an 06 and I haven't had a problem with the turbo seal yet.

My rating on your review is 8 out of 10. Are you a real editor anyways?

 

[Killer]

I dont own a MS6...and IMO it was a pretty good review. I see all the complaints you guys have about your cars on a day to day basis. I am unbiased.Seems to me his review is pretty darn close to the facts.

Just my humble 6i owning opinion.

 

[CaptRB]

Well, I have driven STi's and although they are raw to drive, they sure handle better than the Speed6. The MS6 handles great, way better than the legacy GT, but not as good as you put it to be IMO.>>>


I agree that the STI handling is superior, but with both cars at the limits I still prefer the Speed6 in some respects. This is more about feel than numbers. The STI stays planted and clawing even when I don't think it can, while the Mazda communicates exactly what it will or won't do. I prefer the later.
As for the Legacy GT, it's a beast powerwise, feeling even faster than the Speed6. It is faster, but in reality they are quite close. For about 2 grand you can take a standard GT Turbo and add a suspension that will beat the Spec B. That's exactly what a lot of folks are doing, which raises the price of the Legacy further of course. After I drove the Legacy GT my basic impression was that it handled fantastic. I had to really go crazy to find situations where the Speed6 was superior (but they were there). Both cars are great, though for longer drives you have to go with the Legacy which also feels better to me at high speeds.

<<<The "part" time system AWD you are talking about is somewhat true. The car distributes the torque 80% to the front and 20% to the rear. >>>

The upshot of this for was that the Legacy felt more like an AWD sports sedan and I had more confidence for it.

<<<Turbo Seal issue. This, you got right. A lot of people have being having it, but ALL of the issues I have heard is AFTER they add an aftermarket exhaust,>>>

Well..I have my own ideas about this. 3 of the afflicted cars I saw were stock and adding an exhaust is a basic thing that a lot of speed6 owners might want to do. My belief is that Mazda is quietly replacing turbos as needed and will do many more. I also think the issue has a lot to do with break in periods and some cars will probably seal up fine. I do hope your car is one of them, though things can be worse than getting a brand new fresh turbo under warranty.

<<<My rating on your review is 8 out of 10. Are you a real editor anyways?>>>


Thanks. No, I'm not an editor. I review stuff on Epinions for fun under the name SAILINGSHOT.
And by the way...If Mazda refined the tranny, fixes the turbo and makes a few more tweaks I believe the Mazda would steal a LOT of WRX, Legacy, STI and EVO business. (lol2)

CaptRB

 

[Newf]

a stiff clutch doesn't make a "bad tranny". It is just a stiff clutch. I have zero issues with the shifter. Sounds like the clutch issue is now fixed with the tsb anyways.

Curious, all of these cars that were "smoking".What was the temperature at the time? What time of year was it? Was it around 0C or 32F?

 

[amp]

a stiff clutch doesn't make a "bad tranny". It is just a stiff clutch.

failin turbo seals doesnt make for an engine with serious flaw either..
might also want to mention the bang for the buck in comparison to the competitiors you have mentioned...

 

[07MS6]

Sorry, I love my car and all, but it's nowhere near on the handling level of an EVO, STi, etc...>>>

Bad review?
I have an STI sitting outside and I've driven the Speed6. The STI's amazing handling comes with practice. It can be a jittery and less than forgiving effort to tame the STI and get the most out of it. Handling confidence for the STI does not come right away, as it does with the Speed6. There's much more to handling than absolute numbers.

Looks like you just can't drive. The STi sticks to the road like glue.

 

[MS6S2K]

Yeah, as former STI owner, this car feels like a tank compared to it. the handling is much less forgiving then the Speed 6, so for your average driver, one might not notice as large of a difference, but believe me, it's virtually night and day. I tried hitting some corners at the same speed with my Speed 6 asI used to my STI. It was not liking it at all. Still though, for a car more suited for luxury, this car handles pretty well considering how heavy it is.

 

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

hmm...i would like a real motor review.

and as far as handling goes, i agree with him (i've never driven a STI though, but i have driven plenty of WRX's).

i don't think the interior looks cheap.

its not a FWD car until slippage occurs, fact.

my turbo doesn't smoke, but the exhaust would spit a little smoke in the summer only when i would leave the A/C on and let it idle for like 25minutes. turn off the A/C, and immediately the smoke stopped.

exterior less refined than a legacy.?..hmm preference i would have to say. because i think legacy gt's are pretty plain looking.

overall it was an okay review, nothing more though.

oh i'm curious btw, he said the legacy feels faster than the speed.. will they break into 13's stock??

 

[Karma_hunden]

I think you can push the MS6 further to the limit than the legacy 1/4 mile wise. I havent seen any legacy's hit the record numbers MS6 have hit on the 1/4 mile. Subarus do feel faster, doesnt exactly mean hey are. I know for a fact the WRX isnt.

The clutch is a PITA, yet once you get used to it, is pretty much good. All you need is to know how to get used to it. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Killer]

wow. Lotta proud folks up in here.

 

[Karma_hunden]

You betcha.

You can change your username?

 

[CaptRB]

Subaru GT Review

And just for comparison, here's my review of the 2007 Subaru Legacy GT Turbo, which also talks about the Speed6. Please note: I'm not bashing the Speed6! I was within a hair of buying one. It's a great car.


After test driving a variety of cars, including the Subaru WRX, Mazdaspeed6, BMW 328XI & 330XI and the Audi A6, I found myself close to buying the Mazda. Sadly, the less expensive Mazda also has some issues with turbo failures and a few other issues that kept me away.
Enter the Subaru Legacy GT Limited Sedan. This review is for the Turbo, but NOT the Spec B which I also drove and passed on. More about that later.

The Legacy GT is a sophisticated and refined sports sedan challenging some of the more expensive European builders. At the outset the Legacy Turbo brings it's most potent quality to the table in it's AWD system that is second to none in the market. This is what Subaru does and they've got it down regardless of price point.

Appearance:
The Legacy GT is a car that looks much better in person than in photos. Still, she's no boy wonder rocket ship. She's very smooth and understated. Only her spoiler and air scoop on the hood hint at what's below. With so many fake scoops around, the GT could be mistaken for an ordinary car. For mature enthusiasts this is a car that is pleasing to look at, but it won't draw tickets as easily as an STI with a big wing on the back.

Interior:
This is an excellent interior, especially once you've spent time in it. Once again Subaru went at the design from a function following form approach. The driving position is excellent as are the leather seats. With the seat all the way back, the gear shift could be an inch closer, but that's a nitpick and I'm 6'3. Legroom is very good. The interior feels classy, upscale and also performance oriented.

Handling:
Do some searches online and you'll see a wide range of impressions from drivers. In stock form the Legacy has tenacious road holding ability, but there is also body roll. The entire experience is generally excellent, but at the limits some drivers might consider changing the suspension. But we're talking about some pretty heavy limits here and the Legacy does quite well against the Mazdaspeed6 for example, though the Mazda communicates to the driver a bit better. At higher speeds, from 80-120 MPH the Legacy feels secure and steady. A recent high speed run in a BMW 330 produced more wind noise and a slightly more nervous ride than the Legacy. For most drivers the stock Legacy will provide a lot of fun. If you get bored try some higher end struts and springs.
Keep in mind that a LOT of people are just thrilled with the Legacy GT's handling in stock form. You may be as well.

Transmission:
The 5 speed tranny is a tad notchy, but generally pleasing to use. Thus far I have no issues with it.

Engine/Power
WHOMP! The Legacy has some serious torque going on here and some tests show her doing 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. That's some pretty fast company, folks. Power is available down low and a single shift from first to second will take you to 60 MPH in a blistering fashion. The engine has plenty of wind and pulls strongly well into the triple digits. I believe this to be the most fun you can have anywhere near 30K in a sedan of this type.

Cool!
The GT also features a SI system that lets you pick how you want to drive, Choose Intelligent mode for best economy. Or switch over to Sport or Sport Sharp for instant and aggressive power. It may sound like a gimick, but it really works. My wife tends to use the economy mode and I'm almost always in Sport Sharp!

AWD System
Recent shootouts and tests might put the Legacy behind some other sports sedans, but remember what she can do. This is an AWD car. If you live in a place where rain and snow can be a problem this car will provide fun all year. FWD and RWD cars will not do as well and that's a fact. Add to that that Subaru has the best AWD system and the Legacy is even more of a standout. Now, if you DON'T require AWD there are plenty of fast and fun FWD and RWD cars to buy.

What about the B Spec?
The B Spec is Subaru's sport tuned version of the Legacy GT. It features seats that I like far less, a 6 speed manual transmission from the STI and a tighter suspension that's still not tight enough for the extra money spent. The problem is that the cost of the car is too high. For less money you can make a standard GT handle even better than the B Spec. So unless you have to have the 6 Speed, I feel the Legacy GT Limited is the turbo of choice. As Motortrend pointed out, even the B Spec is a bit soft for all of the potential offered by the GT. So if you're into mods for your cars, I think the B Spec isn't a great value.

Compared to:
WRX is also a great car, but it's spartan and stiff around town. It's great for shorter drives, but noise and bumps make it a less than ideal touring car. With the new 2.5 in the WRX, torque is vastly improved. It's a much better car than 2002-2005 models, but it's still waiting to grow up in some respects.
Perhaps the closest competition would be the Mazdaspeed6, which I also reviewed. I love the car and it's stock handling is slightly better than the Legacy GT. Slightly is a word that a lot of folks will argue over since any small suspension mod on either car can make a world of difference. But in STOCK trim, the Legacy is trying to blend more ride comfort into the mix than the Speed6 and you can feel it. From behind the wheel the Speed6 sits above the WRX in comfort and feels more substantial, but it's still not in the league of the Legacy which offers more comfort and a superior AWD system. I STILL might have bought a Speed6 if not for a "lightly built" feeling about the car and a SERIOUS turbo seal failure issue noted in my review of that car. The Speed6 has some more growing up to do, while the Legacy is all grown up.
I've driven several BMW's including the 330 and 328 XI versions. These are great cars, perhaps more grown up than the Subaru Legacy GT. But in their AWD trim they are also quite a bit slower and less engaging to drive. Still, a 330XI felt VERY precise flying down our roads much of the time. I didn't care for it above 110 MPH, but it could have been the tires.

Warranty
Subaru doesn't mess around. 3 year, 36K miles and a 5 year 60K on engine and powertrain. The 3 year 36K also covers the clutch, brake pads and even wiper blades!

Summary:
Is this the best AWD Sports Sedan around? Nah. Several others are as good in some respects and better/worse in others. The bottom line is that the Legacy GT is right up there. And if you live in an area with fun twisty roads that get snow several months out of the year it may very well be the best pick. If you've wanted a STI or an EVO, won't have anything less than AWD, but also want a car that will look at home for a night on the town, the Legacy GT Turbo may just be your girl.

Capt RB

 

[Donas64]

wow. Lotta proud folks up in here.

you're not kidding dang!

 

[3+5]

I looked at Subarus ONCE. Could not dream of putting any car so butt-ugly as any of them are in my driveway. All things being relatively equal, I'll take the good looking one, thanks.

 

[MS6S2K]

Nice Legacy GT review. I'm with you. I wanted a Legacy GT to replace my STI, but the insane deal on my Speed 6 left me to make the decision that it was a better value (got the Speed 6 Sport for $23500, and $25500 was the lowest I could haggle the Subaru dealerships for the Legacy GT). Had the Speed 6 not failed, and sold closer to invoice like the Legacy GT, I'd have gone with it. This likely comes from the fact that the Legacy GT was available in automatic, which is gonna mean more popularity overall, and not as good of deals. I saved $2000 when choosing the Speed 6 Sport over the base Legacy GT Limited, and although I didn't get a moonroof, I got a 6 Speed manual and I got Stability control, that of which one was only available on the Spec B, and to get stability control (you could only get with the automatic $1500 additional MSRP).

About the Spec B, if it was easily available to buy at invoice (a real $2000 more then the fully loaded Legacy GT, you wanted all the extra goodies that you'd have to pay for if you got the Legacy GT fully equipped (you also would then be forced to get the automatic), based on MSRP and the even prices the cars sold for respectably, it would be a good buy. The fact that in my experience there have not been any deals on the Spec B make it not worth it, but based on the MSRP and a similiar deal like a fully loaded regular LGT and wanting all the goodies you could get, along with a 6 Speed manual instead of the auto, the car would be worth it IMO, because you get performance upgrades.

Subaru did well in making the Spec B available with more and better standard features, but since the deals never came to be, I see that as the only reason it's not worth it. For about $2000 more MSRP compared to a top of line fully loaded regular Legacy GT assuming you wanted 6 Speed manual, navigation, TPMS, Stability control, the suspension and rim upgrade, ect ect along with the other little goodies, the Spec B is a great choice.

Now had the Legacy GT been available with a 6 Speed manual and Stability control, with Navigation as an option, then it would have made it so the Spec B totally wouldn't be worth it. Keep in mind the Spec B comes standard with everything, and you can't eliminate options, so you'd have to want everything it had, and be willing to not get as good of a deal for it to be worth it, and that just isn't the case for most people. You simply cannot buy a Spec B for only $2000 more then the top of line LGT (comparing MSRP and selling price and wanting the same deal, and wanting the 6 speed manual instead of auto), and that to me is why it's not worth it.

Ok, sorry about the super long post, but I had to set the record straight here. In the end, IMO it's the selling price that makes the Spec B not worth it, but I test drove both the LGT and the SPEC B, and if there was truly only a $2000 price difference and I wanted all those goodies, I'd have been all over it, because it's SO worth it, and it's a nicer car overall to me, and would be worth the $2k extra if you wanted all the goodies the fully equipped LGT had.