MY plan for my msp when i get it. opinions please

[Paul]

ok after doing some reading and what not i've decided to throw this quick list up to see what everyone thinks.
This is a list of the mods I plan to do to the msp. of course this is not a overnight project. I just need some opinons on what else would be needed or some better suggestions.
I wanted to be in the 13.7 - 13.9 range but seeing how that's doesn't seem to be that hard i might shoot for a lower time.
msp lightened flywheel (the one that's 14lb's or so from corcksport)
oliver rods/cp pistons (which everyone is saying they are longer, if anyone has and details on these please help me out)
Short ram intake (not sure who makes one yet)
Ion Exhaust (would love one but seems kinda pricey, but we will see)
FMIC (not sure which one yet)
Apexi downpipe (not sure w/ cat or w/o cat yet)
boost controller (not sure what it can run w/ the pistons/rod combo)
Crank Pulley
what else would be needed to be in a mid to low 13's?
i'm sure i would need a diff fuel rail and some other stuff, just not sure what else.

 

[bill harvey]

you could skipp all that and just buy mine

 

[Paul]

nah i like to build my own, thankx though
oh and i forgot
motor mounts
ported throttle body
and a blow off valve for full added affect

 

[TX Speed Demon]

Perrin makes an SRI for $200. It's good (I have it) but you have to recirculate with it cause the MAF is too close to the turbo and gets blow back, causing poor air readings and possible stalling.

I think you'll have enought to get into the 13s with just that. You could probably do it without half the stuff and get high 13s with only:
FMIC
Turbo-back Exhaust
SRI
Motor Mounts
Boost Controller


Although your other mods will help you get there much safer. I'd also suggest a Fuel Cut Defender. I'm hitting fuel cut at only 2 psi now with a SRI and FMIC. Although the fact that I have a stock exhaust and it's only 19 degrees out has a lot to do with it.

 

[edaddeemsp]

Along with the flywheel, you might consider a new clutch. I dont think that you'll need the downpipe, if your considering the ion turbo back. You might want to look into ghl also. The crank pulley from what I hear is a no no. As far as pistons and rods, you might consider a shortblock from either wagner or mam (thats in the $2000-$3000 range for a complete shortblock compared to at least $1200 for rods/pistons combo w/o machine work), and for a fmic, since you don't have the msp yet, the wait isn't so dramatic but mam is coming out with a fmic that includes new fans, and a cai/sri along with the fmic. Just my thoughts. Also don't forget some type of engine mngmnt.

 

[Paul]

Perrin makes an SRI for $200. It's good (I have it) but you have to recirculate with it cause the MAF is too close to the turbo and gets blow back, causing poor air readings and possible stalling.

I think you'll have enought to get into the 13s with just that. You could probably do it without half the stuff and get high 13s with only:
FMIC
Turbo-back Exhaust
SRI
Motor Mounts
Boost Controller


Although your other mods will help you get there much safer. I'd also suggest a Fuel Cut Defender. I'm hitting fuel cut at only 2 psi now with a SRI and FMIC. Although the fact that I have a stock exhaust and it's only 19 degrees out has a lot to do with it.

i've seen a few people's sig's that said fuel cut defender. but i have no idea what that is. fill me in.
and if i do recirculate my car wont sound like a turkey will it?

 

[TX Speed Demon]

i've seen a few people's sig's that said fuel cut defender. but i have no idea what that is. fill me in.

You car hits Fuel Cut when the MAF sensor gets maxxed out from all the air rushing by. Since it can't figure out the proper amount of fuel to mix, it shuts the engine down. You'll be driving, hit the gas, and your car will buck like a horse. The FCD tricks the ecu to thinking the air is just under the freak out limit. So the car dumps as much fuel as it can, but doesn't ever hit cut. It's good that it gives you the power you need, but it erases the safeguard of having the car shut down before running too lean. So theoretically you could push soo much boost that you don't have enugh fuel and not know. Really though you'd have to be pushing a really high PSI to do this.

This happens more in cold weather since the air is denser. In my case I have my intake system fully done with a FMIC and SRI so a ton of air goes in, but with a lot of backpressure from the stock exhaust it can't make it through the system fast enough.

if i do recirculate my car wont sound like a turkey will it?

No it may not, and that's a good thing. The turkey is BAD BAD BAD. It's compressor surge as air bounces back up the pipes cause it is not released fast enough.

It doesn't have to do with venting/recirculating as much as it does having a valve that opens fast and large enough. You could have a venting BOV or a recirculating BPV set too tight and get compressor surge.

With the Perrin Intake (and most other SRIs I imagine) you NEED to recirculate. SRIs put the maf very close to the turbo. If any air bounces back up and past the MAF in the wrong direction it causes your car to say WTF? and try to stall out. Recirculating the air back into the intake track after the maf and in the right direction will force the air to travel away from the maf and toward the turbo so you won't stall. The Perrin SRI comes with a 90degree elbow you attach to do this.

If you know you want to vent with a BOV I'd suggest getting a CAI since the maf will be past at least 1 bend in the pipeing from the turbo. I would also suggest getting you BOV on your turbo>intercooler pipe. I know this is against common thought, but when I had my greddy there I could vent perfectly. Once I moved it to the intercooler>throttlebody pipe (with the FMIC install) I could no longer vent and eliminate both stalling and compressor surge. I always had at least one or the other.

Your other option would be to get a dual vavle that both recirculates and vents to atmosphere.

I can tell you that with my greddy recirculating you can hear it nice and loud in the car (no more whistle sound, only air rushing through the tube), and softly outside the car. When i hd it venting it was SUPER loud though. You could hear it on the freeway several cars away.

 

[Paul]

not sure i understand all that completely, but i'll have to reread it in a after lunch. it's not even 12 and it's been a long day and going to be a long long night of work.
thankx for the explanintaion (sp)
so i buy hard IC pipes will they work when i switch to a FMIC?

 

[vindication]

good luck getting the ion products. nothing but hassels from that guy. you should read up on him. If I were you I would go with GHL's turbo-back.

 

[Paul]

really? thankx for the heads up. i was doing some reading and what not and found that i really like the sound of theirs.
i want something that sounds throaty,deep,and just sounds mean as possble.

 

[TX Speed Demon]

so i buy hard IC pipes will they work when i switch to a FMIC?

Probably not. You IC pipes will route to your stock Side Mount. You could just buy some pieces for a front mount like a new core, and some pipeing. But you'd have to have the pipeing custom made to match up with your previously bought hardpipes. In the end it would probably cost just a little less or the same as an FMIC kit. My hiboost kit was only $900 shipped.

I'd imaging going the other route you'd pay for
the hardpipes
a new intercooler core $100-200 (just guessing here could be more or less)
new pipes to connect the core to your hardpipes $100
a welder to weld it all together $100-$200 (my old single pipe turbo>intercooler pipe cost $90 to weld)
new silicone couplers for the new connections ($50-100)

If you want a FMIC my suggestion would be to wait and just get a nice kit. I went the hardpipe & BOV route first and liked it for about 1 month. Then I wished I had just saved for the FMIC a little longer had had some real performance gains. I made some of my money back by selling my old stuff, and keeping some parts to use on my FMIC, but it set me back a few months time wise.

i want something that sounds throaty,deep,and just sounds mean as possble.

That's all in the muffler/resonator section. you could change out the end of any exhaust system and get a different sound.

Both the ION and GHL systems are full turbo-backs and near identical. Ion does have a long turnaround time while I've heard GHL ships theirs within a week or two.

Plus with the ION one you have additional shipping and custom charges, unless you are in Canada.

 

[Paul]

cool thankx, well that's what i wanna do is do it right the first time. dont wanna buy cheap s***, i did that on the last car and learned my lesson. i lost a few $ and there but no big deal. now i can start over so i'm going to do it right.
btw-
what do u mean when u say u had hardpipe & bov route?
can u not have a bov w/ a FMIC?

 

[TX Speed Demon]

what do u mean when u say u had hardpipe & bov route?

Last year I wanted that BOV sound, but didn't have enough money for an FMIC. So I had a custom pipe made from the turbo to the stock intercooler and had a GReddy Type S Flange wleded on there. It worked perfect in that location. i could vent to atmosphere and not stall at all. But I got no performance gains and quickly grew tired of having a slow, but fast sounding, car.

can u not have a bov w/ a FMIC?

You can, but most people are finding they need to run at least 1 by-pass valve in conjunction with their BOV to prevent stalling. If you set you BOV too tight you get compressor surge cause not enough air gets out. If you set it too loose the car trys to stall cause too much air gets out. If you have one valve that does each function you can blowoff for the sound and recirculate enough to prevent stalling.

I also think the location of the valve has somethign to do with it. When the BOV was venting on the turbo>intercooler pipe I had no problems. When it was moved to the intercooler>throttlebody pipe I could no longer set it correctly to prevent both the stalling and compressor surge. Since the life of my engine is more important to me than the sound, I switched to recirculating the Greddy Type S and no longer have any issues.

Our cars also run best with a recirculating valve cause of the MAF sensor. It measures the amount of air, not the air pressure. So when you vent some air out of the system, the computer doesn't know and you know have too much fuel in your engine for that amount of air, you bog a little cause the car is so rich. You can get around this by moving your MAF sensor onto the pressurised side of the pipes (after turbo and BOV) and it will only read what air passes by the BOV. The problem with this is the undetermined strength of the MAF and how long it will last on the pressure side of the system. It's an expensive part to replace if it breaks.

 

[TX Speed Demon]

That ends our school session for today. I'm going home and will be on vaction next week. Happy holidays to all.

 

[spacemonkey]

Some engine managment...I would keep tabs on the Microtech system. Or a nice piggy back (MPI or Unichip). But a full standalone with that kind of internals will let you do whatever your heart desires. Mircotech, Haltech or AEM. I dont really know alot about the other EMS but Microtech comes with a MAP sensor so you can ditch the MAF...problem solved.

Perrin makes some sexy looking FMIC and SRI.

IMO since I still want daily driven economode I would go with Apex highflow cats and maybe do a Y-pipe electonic valve type thing.