My NA build to 200whp!

yeah if you weld the rods, obviously you'd have to wory about having each balanced first of all. And then there is the possibility of changing the grain structure of the metal when doing so, and having inconsistencies in the metal . If you were going the route of modifying the stock rods, you'd want to do something more along the lines of this:

This is a highly modified Millenia "S" rod on the left compared to a stock one on the right.
The one on the left has been lightened extensively and the beams were polished to eliminate stress risers.
Millenia_Rods01.jpg

Removing the casting flash and polishing the beams on the rods removes possible stress risers
which could lead to rod failure under power.
Millenia_Rods02.jpg

The bottom rod is part of a matched set that was balanced to within a half gram total un-balance
between lightest and heaviest. Balance in an engine is extremely crucial for a smooth and efficient running engine.
Millenia_Rods03.jpg

But at the end of the day our rods are still pencils
 
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No they are for the KL......all for me......lol
It was just an example of was you could do to cast rods.
 
So... This all looks like a good build so far; You've got the basics, and I saw you have an EMS selected and listed. I would make sure you get that early on in the game. Save your cash on the other stuff, for now, and get that, because that's where you're going to run into a big 'ol wall, if you're slapping in large, chunky cams, and have huge intake ports, and such.

Two or three things that are generally missed with an N/A build are balance, weight, and simplicity. It's easy to make a build overly complex, but what you're going to want to do, at least in my eyes, is to remove what you can, and lighten what you can't from the point that the engine transfers the power to the transmission; The crank. At the same time, you want to make sure the crank is balanced, and if you have it out, and can work on it, there are some very important things that can be done to it. You can take a good hunk of weight off, as well as knife-edge said crank, and get it coated to repel oil, which reduces frothing and the possibility for air in the oil delivery system. This is a very in-depth modification, but is worth considering, since you're going to want as much power transferring from your engine to the wheels. Oh, and get yourself a lightweight flywheel, too. I feel that a lot of folks try and take the brute force method of N/A tuning, where they just bolt on a lot of parts, and try to suck in more air and fuel, rather than trying to make more of the power reach those little rubber patches nestled under the car!

Since we're on the topic of quality of power, things to consider are some very intensive head work, too. Porting out that head isn't a small task, and there are a LOT of improvements to be made. The valve shrouding is a little crappy, and there are lots of sharp edges in the combustion chamber (read; detonation bad!) and the casting marks on the intake and exhaust ports are pretty terrible. The throat on the exhaust side needs to be opened up, as it hits a rather extreme angle before exiting, which causes a lot of turbulence in the exit flow. This removed a lot of the burbling at idle that my car did with the high lift cams, as a bonus. =) On the intake side, you have some huge runners, but they should be port matched, and smoothed as per normal. No reason to make this cavernous, as I daresay that side of the engine flows well enough to get to about 7.5-8k RPM. While I'm on that topic...

Rotational speed. Horsepower is a function of RPM and torque. So, let's focus on the RPM portion. Plan to spin this motor a bit faster. My redline was set at 7250 after I did the cams and head work, and after a fashion, I backed off, in order to lighten the crank pulley and the flywheel. Once that was done, I realized a proper balancing should be done before I reached 8000 RPM. And as far as this is a limitation of the crank, it's also a limitation of the stock intake hardware. The intake manifold was unsuited to higher-than-stock RPM levels, so I started down the path of building up IRTBs ... Wow, what a b****. =) I was trying to keep the EGR, which just plain killed me, pretty much. So, after abandoning the last semblance of emissions control equipment my car had (I had already moved the evap everything, and so on... I still kept a cat on the car, and will forever; I feel it's worth it) I got my IRTB's running, and went through three ECU attempts, with the third bearing fruit. It had everything I need, but the old ECU kind of had to sit out from the party, while still being there, wallflower style, to control a lot of the interior and accessories. No biggy.

Simplicity... When I say that, I mean, remove what you don't need... Sure, if you drive it daily, you may NEED a lot of things; Splash guards, heat shields, bolts... Who uses bolts anymore, anyway? ;) Epoxy should be fine! All joking aside, however, there are a lot of unnecessary solenoids and such that come with the emissions equipment. I'd suggest simplifying the vacuum system by removing these, and the electrical system will thank you the same!

Also, don't forget the last thing on the drivetrain: The wheels and tires! Get yourself some light-ass wheels, as small as you can (15's around MSP/Millenia or smaller brakes.) so you don't have to waste your power trying to twist some huge ol' 18's.

As it stands, I have my car close(r) to stock than it was back then, as I had to pass CA emissions, and it kind of went back to being a daily driver, but even then, with all the weight reduction and rotating mass loss, it's still a hoot to drive, though I'm turning over maybe 140-150whp at this point, with the stock-style head and stock cams, with my old MP3 ECU. *cries* Anyway, if you want suggestions, I'll be happy to help you out. =) And I hope my post has already done that! Remember, at the end of the day, the rule is to have fun with it!
 
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Makemegofast,

Let me know if you would like me to merge all of your build updates into the first post sequentially.
 
So... This all looks like a good build so far; You've got the basics, and I saw you have an EMS selected and listed. I would make sure you get that early on in the game. Save your cash on the other stuff, for now, and get that, because that's where you're going to run into a big 'ol wall, if you're slapping in large, chunky cams, and have huge intake ports, and such.

Two or three things that are generally missed with an N/A build are balance, weight, and simplicity. It's easy to make a build overly complex, but what you're going to want to do, at least in my eyes, is to remove what you can, and lighten what you can't from the point that the engine transfers the power to the transmission; The crank. At the same time, you want to make sure the crank is balanced, and if you have it out, and can work on it, there are some very important things that can be done to it. You can take a good hunk of weight off, as well as knife-edge said crank, and get it coated to repel oil, which reduces frothing and the possibility for air in the oil delivery system. This is a very in-depth modification, but is worth considering, since you're going to want as much power transferring from your engine to the wheels. Oh, and get yourself a lightweight flywheel, too. I feel that a lot of folks try and take the brute force method of N/A tuning, where they just bolt on a lot of parts, and try to suck in more air and fuel, rather than trying to make more of the power reach those little rubber patches nestled under the car!

Since we're on the topic of quality of power, things to consider are some very intensive head work, too. Porting out that head isn't a small task, and there are a LOT of improvements to be made. The valve shrouding is a little crappy, and there are lots of sharp edges in the combustion chamber (read; detonation bad!) and the casting marks on the intake and exhaust ports are pretty terrible. The throat on the exhaust side needs to be opened up, as it hits a rather extreme angle before exiting, which causes a lot of turbulence in the exit flow. This removed a lot of the burbling at idle that my car did with the high lift cams, as a bonus. =) On the intake side, you have some huge runners, but they should be port matched, and smoothed as per normal. No reason to make this cavernous, as I daresay that side of the engine flows well enough to get to about 7.5-8k RPM. While I'm on that topic...

Rotational speed. Horsepower is a function of RPM and torque. So, let's focus on the RPM portion. Plan to spin this motor a bit faster. My redline was set at 7250 after I did the cams and head work, and after a fashion, I backed off, in order to lighten the crank pulley and the flywheel. Once that was done, I realized a proper balancing should be done before I reached 8000 RPM. And as far as this is a limitation of the crank, it's also a limitation of the stock intake hardware. The intake manifold was unsuited to higher-than-stock RPM levels, so I started down the path of building up IRTBs ... Wow, what a b****. =) I was trying to keep the EGR, which just plain killed me, pretty much. So, after abandoning the last semblance of emissions control equipment my car had (I had already moved the evap everything, and so on... I still kept a cat on the car, and will forever; I feel it's worth it) I got my IRTB's running, and went through three ECU attempts, with the third bearing fruit. It had everything I need, but the old ECU kind of had to sit out from the party, while still being there, wallflower style, to control a lot of the interior and accessories. No biggy.

Simplicity... When I say that, I mean, remove what you don't need... Sure, if you drive it daily, you may NEED a lot of things; Splash guards, heat shields, bolts... Who uses bolts anymore, anyway? ;) Epoxy should be fine! All joking aside, however, there are a lot of unnecessary solenoids and such that come with the emissions equipment. I'd suggest simplifying the vacuum system by removing these, and the electrical system will thank you the same!

Also, don't forget the last thing on the drivetrain: The wheels and tires! Get yourself some light-ass wheels, as small as you can (15's around MSP/Millenia or smaller brakes.) so you don't have to waste your power trying to twist some huge ol' 18's.

As it stands, I have my car close(r) to stock than it was back then, as I had to pass CA emissions, and it kind of went back to being a daily driver, but even then, with all the weight reduction and rotating mass loss, it's still a hoot to drive, though I'm turning over maybe 140-150whp at this point, with the stock-style head and stock cams, with my old MP3 ECU. *cries* Anyway, if you want suggestions, I'll be happy to help you out. =) And I hope my post has already done that! Remember, at the end of the day, the rule is to have fun with it!

Thanks for all the info, it helps alot cause as much as I don't like to admit I don't know everything. I would really like to know more about how you did your IRTB and what you used? That is a route I would really like to try so I don't have to mess with an intake mani, plus I am sure they will produce more HP than most intake manifolds out there. I live in Idaho so I don't have to worry about passing emissions tests. So that being said let me know what I need to make IRTB possible. Thanks, Dan
 
This would be a sweet weight reduction for the P5:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123693736

This along with a carbon fiber hood would help alot with HP. I am pretty good with fiber glass. I would like to try to do this my self if I could learn how to work with carbon fiber. The only thing that would stump me is how to do the glass part, and you would probably have to get different hatch dampers to account for the lighter hatch weight. Anyone have any carbon fiber how to's??
 
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I built a custom manifold adapter, and used a set of throttle bodies from a Suzuki Hayabusa. I found the injector location, pre-butterfly stack length and a few other issues that made the setup sub-optimal. So, I cut down my manifold adapter, mounted two sets of aluminum Weber DCOE flanges, then picked these up:

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=113

And got them working like that. This completely changed how the throttle percentages were handled, as far as the TPS, and the values that were output. I don't recall exactly how I got around this, but it was just a set of values within the ECU, and had to switch a bunch of stuff around to get MAP working. On that note, too, I think you'd be best off to have IRTB's with a collector at the end (I think TweakIt also sells those) and a tube to run a MAF setup, rather than the MAP.

Even when it was tuned poorly, the car had absolutely ABSURD throttle response. Sharp enough that I had to be careful even with all of my engine mounts swapped with urethane to not get wheelhop... From a roll, it would happily do it at the higher end of first gear. Heh.

Let's see... Ditch EGR all together, because it makes it a real b**** to tune for, and you have to make a means to mount it and so on.

Back when I got these throttle bodies (I've since sold them, and the FS to DCOE manifold adapter, though I have a spare aluminum flange for the Intake on the FS engine, as well as some runners bent to shape, if you need them.) I had ordered 45mm race series, though in hindsight, it would have been nice to have the tapered mouth runners, rather than the straight runners. Probably would have helped a little more at the low end. I got the D-shaft for TPS added, and used 11mm injector bungs. Also, I went with the cable pull linkages, and used the stock throttle cable. I fabbed the vac runner myself, but I see they offer that, now, too!

As far as tuning it, I would suggest that you spend quite a bit of time at the dyno, then road test it and adjust as necessary. It makes the car EXTREMELY difficult to drive on the road if you lean things out too much, which lends itself to really rough, jerky throttle transitions... The tip-in enrichment is the biggest deal, since every percent of throttle you transition in is actually throating open a LOT more surface area than a single plate at the base of the plenum.

Oh, also-also, you're going to want to make the runners as long as you can... Seriously. Just don't forget that you have a firewall, and that the engine will rock back and forth, so... I think I ended up getting about 11.5" of runner, total, before I felt uncomfortable with proximity. That makes for a few harmonics at 5500, 7000, and some absurdly high thousand RPM. =) I think 11k, or something.
 
And remember, guys... Weight reduction is awesome, and the hood is heavy as ****, but if your goal is 200whp, you're going to want to lose a LOT of weight on the drivetrain! I'm talking all aluminum pulleys, light flywheel, lightened clutch, light-as-you-can-wheels... The SSR Competition wheels in 15x6.5 are only eight pounds! =)

Speaking as someone who's lightened his car a lot, and brought a lot of it back to stock, most of the difference exists in the hood, and the drivetrain weight. Also, get rid of AC if you don't need/want it. It makes more of a difference than I figured it would! Alternately, I also kinda had a seized compressor, so I had more incentive than most. ;)
 
This would be a sweet weight reduction for the P5:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123693736

This along with a carbon fiber hood would help alot with HP. I am pretty good with fiber glass. I would like to try to do this my self if I could learn how to work with carbon fiber. The only thing that would stump me is how to do the glass part, and you would probably have to get different hatch dampers to account for the lighter hatch weight. Anyone have any carbon fiber how to's??
are you saying a CF hood will help increase HP?
 
a lighter car puts more HP to the ground? I know it'll accelerat quicker, but not because it has more HP
 

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