MS3 vs MS6: What Do You Think? *Re Opened*

[Breeegz]

To me a Caliber looks like the illegitimate love child of a Durango and Ugly...

I don't know what Dodge was thinking... they coulda styled it like the Magnum, I like that one.

 

[Rainman]

Just reading the July issue of Sport Compact Car yesterday when I came upon their list of cars in their project garage. On pg 152 they list the Acura RSX Type-S as one of their brand new project cars that, as yet, does not have any mods. Apparently, they lucked upon a bonanza of parts for this little gem and are putting it together with features that include a built long block and a turbo. The interesting part is that their shoot-out competitor is the Mazdaspeed 3.(omg)

I think that this is incredible. The car ain't even out yet and already people are planning on ways to take it down. The fact that they are modding an RSX Type-S to achieve this goal suggests that they aren't just tossing together a bunch of crap for this shoot-out. I guess that people are finally starting to take the Mazdapseed marque seriously.

What do ya think? Comments?

R

 

[Antoine]

There is no doubt that the MS3 is going to get A LOT of attention...My main concern is that it gets the RIGHT attention...I hope future owners/members are going to be the type that can appreciate a car for it's overall performance and value than it's "pimp" factor.

 

[seanw]

There is no doubt that the MS3 is going to get A LOT of attention...My main concern is that it gets the RIGHT attention...I hope future owners/members are going to be the type that can appreciate a car for it's overall performance and value than it's "pimp" factor.

I think it being a hatch will lessen the pimp factor from what I've read in these forums. You know, the "mini-minivan" comments, etc. The hatch is great for people who need to do stuff with the car instead of just cruising and being seen. Also, not being able to claim having the most hp like the Caliber SRT-4 will limit it's pimp appeal.

 

[nautical2086]

has to be performance, and pimp factor to be cool, It has the performance indeed, but Needs something more for the pimp factor, which i'm sure they will have good aftermarket for this thing.

 

[seanw]

Just reading the July issue of Sport Compact Car yesterday when I came upon their list of cars in their project garage. On pg 152 they list the Acura RSX Type-S. . . .The interesting part is that their shoot-out competitor is the Mazdaspeed 3.(omg)

I think that this is incredible. The car ain't even out yet and already people are planning on ways to take it down. . . . .I guess that people are finally starting to take the Mazdapseed marque seriously.

What do ya think? Comments?

R

Yeah, that is really something. You think they got a test drive and really know what their talking about? I think people are starting to realize Mazdaspeed = power-to-weight + handling + refinement / cost. Other car makers succeed at one part or another of this formula but not all like Mazdaspeed. IMHO they got the job done on the MS6 and it's looks like they did it on the MS3, too. We'll see in the next few months.

 

[Cloke]

new information from my local Mazda dealer.

A Corp Mazda rep stopped by the other day and gave my guys the down lown on whats going on.


She gave them pretty much all in the info we had but some other stuff. Mazda will be releasing the stock mph at 250 but thte latest dino was 268, they will keep dyno until hte have a suficient speed or in other words stable.

Also, the pirce of the MS3 has not been released yet but its nothing way over the oriinal price of the current M3. The $24k questmate price should be correct.

My mazda rep will not be back till moday b/c he is on vacation this weekend but i'll get the info they gave him and i'll giive it to you all.

Now they are taking orders now or names at least and its a $500 deposit to have a car held for you when it comes. I will be reserving a blck mzsd3. I will be probabaly the first in Oklahoma have to have one waiting for me at least. I know I said that aboot the ms6 i wanted but i decided to wait till this dropped late agust late sept.

What do you all think aboot that?

 

[dogma]

That's great if you prefer the MS3. As everyone has pointed out since its a lighter car is should be straight line faster,but will not out handle the MS6.
countless others and myself would have prefered if they used the 3 sedan since its looks so much better than the hatch.And of course AWD would have been awesome. But I guess they had to keep it afforadable since it is an entry level car. It should be the top entry level performance car around ,but in my opinion AWD would have made it untouchable. I can't wait to see the magazine comparisons. I say if you can't afford or don't want to afford the MS6 go for the next best thing the MS3 .

 

[crossbow]

Simple physics...lighter car's outhandle heavier cars.

As lotus always says..."We put lightness into everything".

500 lbs is a crazy amount of heft. Fill up your car with 500 lbs of friends, drive around, then ask them to get out, and drive around. Gives you a rough idea of the difference.

I'd say 100 lbs is enough to make a noticable difference at the track (road course)...500 lbs would be a completely difference vehicle.

 

[dogma]

Simple physics...lighter car's outhandle heavier cars.

As lotus always says..."We put lightness into everything".

500 lbs is a crazy amount of heft. Fill up your car with 500 lbs of friends, drive around, then ask them to get out, and drive around. Gives you a rough idea of the difference.

I'd say 100 lbs is enough to make a noticable difference at the track (road course)...500 lbs would be a completely difference vehicle.

Only if its capable of out handling it in the first place. Apples to apples yes, apples to oranges no. I think a Lotus weighing 500lbs more than a MS3 will still out handle it.

 

[BlueSolrac]

That's great if you prefer the MS3. As everyone has pointed out since its a lighter car is should be straight line faster,but will not out handle the MS6.

What makes you think that it will not outhandle the MS6? Because it is FWD? Incase you didn't know the MS6 actually drives like a FWD vehicle. The AWD in this case does not compensate for the added weight (in terms of handling.)

Like Crossbow said, a lighter car will obviously be more nimble. There is no exception here. The MS3 is going to be much lighter with similar numbers as the MS6. It will outhandle a MS6.

 

[dogma]

Yesterday I went to the autocross race thats held every two weeks. I have been observing for about a year and half and actully tried my SVTF pn a test and tune day. There are alltypes of cars from Corvettes,M3's Rx7's,350Z's Mustangs's Miata's Cobra replicas STI's ,Evo's and even a lotus. Guess what car's consistantly have the best times? The STI and the Evolution! The RX7's and 350Z's come in really good to but never beat the AWD cars.
One of the guy's has a Mazda3 hatch that's moded with serious uprades to suspension ,rims,tires and engine mods. He let me drive his and I let him drive mine. We both agree that the MS6 out hadles the 3 hatch. Unless the MS3 has a 300% better suspension then he has it will not out handle the MS6. I am not saying that the MS6 is the best handling car in the world ,but it will out handle the 3. As far as being lighter sure the Ms3 could be straight line faster by a little. I will take AWD any day. How much weight difference between the EVO,STI and MS3 ? If they happen to be the same weight or real close what will handle better? EVO or STI for sure.

The MS3 is a great car ( probably should have used the sedan though,since it's looks are much better) The MS3 is an entry level car the MS6 is an upgrade, IF they do a SpeedRX8 that would be something ( hopefully its AWD ! )

 

[BlueSolrac]

There are alltypes of cars from Corvettes,M3's Rx7's,350Z's Mustangs's Miata's Cobra replicas STI's ,Evo's and even a lotus. Guess what car's consistantly have the best times? The STI and the Evolution! The RX7's and 350Z's come in really good to but never beat the AWD cars.

And what does that prove? Autocrossing is about the driver not the car. It doesn't matter how great your car handles if you cant drive it. And I thought you wanted to compare apples to apples? The Sti and Evo AWD systems are both superior to the Speed6 Haldex system. The Speed6 only allows up to 50/50 torque distribution.

You seem to be under the impression that any AWD vehicle will always out handle a FWD or RWD vehicle? AWD, FWD and RWD all have different characteristics and are used for different applications. One is not better than the other in every case (i.e. handling.)

One of the guy's has a Mazda3 hatch that's moded with serious uprades to suspension ,rims,tires and engine mods. He let me drive his and I let him drive mine. We both agree that the MS6 out hadles the 3 hatch. Unless the MS3 has a 300% better suspension then he has it will not out handle the MS6. I am not saying that the MS6 is the best handling car in the world ,but it will out handle the 3. As far as being lighter sure the Ms3 could be straight line faster by a little. I will take AWD any day. How much weight difference between the EVO,STI and MS3 ? If they happen to be the same weight or real close what will handle better? EVO or STI for sure.

You are also extremely defensive when it comes to the Speed6. I have no idea why. The Speed6 is an awesome car. But you cant ignore physics. Weight not only affects the acceleration of a vehicle but its dynamics (cornering, braking and stability) as well. Weight makes a BIG difference.

 

[dogma]

I may be a bit defensive about the MS6. But you guys are trying to make the MS3 out to be the next EVO of STI. Its not its another entry level car with a lot of hp that should have been AWD and its ugly( they should have used the sedan ).

 

[BlueSolrac]

Mmmm...I don't see it as the next Evo or Sti, but I believe it will be about as popular as the SRT4. I honestly think it is a smart move by Mazda to appeal to the younger crowd. Looks much better than the SRT4 with more refinements. However I am still partial to the look and luxurious feel of the Speed6 which is why I plan on purchasing one at the end of the year. (drive)

 

[Cloke]

Check this out...

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3&bhcp=1

 

[MS6S2K]

I may be a bit defensive about the MS6. But you guys are trying to make the MS3 out to be the next EVO of STI. Its not its another entry level car with a lot of hp that should have been AWD and its ugly( they should have used the sedan ).

I agree, but looks are of course subjective, so that's simply a preference. I traded in my STI for an MS6, and of course I lost out on the performance/fun factor (but needed a smoother, easier to live with daily so I sacrificed) big time. Not even close. I can't imagine that a FWD MS3 will hold up at all against any EVO or STi, and the car is a hatchback for that reason. From a roll though, depending on it's tuning, it could give those cars a bit of a run like the SRT did in bone stock vs bone stock form. The SRT of course was way underrated in it's specs, as it dyno averages at 220hp to the wheels. As a former RX8 owner, I'm also aware that the RX8 is overrated on power, being that they rated it in 04-05 at 238hp (232hp now), yet it dyno'ed regularly at 180-185whp, which is way too much drivetrain loss for a RWD car. I dyo'ed my former 01 S2000 at 201whp and it was rated at 240. It was most certainly faster then the RX8, even if I threw 200lbs in the trunk to even out the weight differrence.The MS6 doesn't feel like 274hp, and the 250hp Legacy GT is faster. Mazda is infamous for overrating their performance cars, so we'll have to see.

The MS3 of course is not meant to compete against an EVO or STI, but people who buy this car will want to test them out I'm sure. It's an affordable enthusiast car that will appeal to a younger crowd. Evos and STIs appeal to a younger crowd as well, but they are much more expensive. The MS3 will be a super bang for your buck car. You don't buy an MS6 to race around a track, or take to a drag strip. It's more of a luxury car, which is why it's failed in the enthusiast market. The MS3 will have the lightweight and speed to take out an MS6, but that doesn't make it a better car. For many people speed is what matters. I do wish this MS6 had a bit more power, and wasn't so heavy, but I'm over it, and enjoying it for it's great looks, and luxurious feel. I don't own it as a car to race like I did with my STI, I own it as a car to drive and enjoy it's smooth quiet ride, and nice acceleration and handling for a car this size.

In the end, it's all subjective and we will argue our opinions to death, thinking we are right. The fact is, whatever one individual prefers is what is the best to them, and that's all that matters.

 

[dogma]

Your right all this comparing the MS3 to MS6 is subjective. We really shouldn't compare them they are 2 totally different classes of cars as are the EVO and STI. The 3 represents the entry market, the 6 represents the luxury/sport and the EVO&STI the race side.

All I know is I just finished washing my velocity red MS6 and it gorgeous. At this point and what I paid for it nothing compares.

 

[Cloke]

Any news on release date or anything else?

 

[Wiggum]

Interesting opinion, I hope to see your MSP around Orlando sometime....