MS3 kicks WRX's ass Japanese-style

[ZooZoom]

I have no idea what this guy is saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmYnA7iGMoU

But here's my own translation:

"MazdaSpeed3 is a far superior car. The steering is precise and the suspension is tuned for well-controlled, aggressive maneuvering. Corning is flat so speed can be maintained through rapid transitions. Overall, this Mazda kicks the living s*** out of that WRX death-trap."

"This new Impreza is a very, very disappointing product from Subaru. Despite its supposed AWD advantage, the WRX flounders around like a fish on a boat deck. I'm glad my employer offers excellent life insurance because I almost killed myself out there. Give my apologies to the cameraman for causing him to piss his pants."

MazdaSpeed3 (first)

Subaru WRX (piss)

 

[bbychvz]

Sweet(spank)

 

[MS6S2K]

It is comparing the company's middle grade car to the top of line of another, and they really arent' direct competitors because one car is a regular long term trim, and the other is an exculsive top of line.

Either way, kudos to Mazda. However, Subaru could easily build a better car, so we must respect the WRX for what it is, which is a car meant for just as many average people as enthusiasts who can't afford an STI. They are far more advanced in performance then Mazda as of now. It would be nice to see Mazda try and compete with the STI one day. They got some catching up to do, but perhaps one day. The only problem is that they can never match Subaru's superior AWD system.

 

[ZooZoom]

You're preaching to the choir here dude. I sold my '05 Subaru Legacy GT 5MT to get my Speed3. I loved my turbo-charged, AWD Leggie.

I don't agree with your assessment of the WRX. I would expect countless Rex owners to feel the same way. Until this new 2008 model, the turbo-charged Rex was certainly not a "middle grade car" made for the masses. That duty is relegated to the NA model.

I also wish that Mazda would bring forth an STI equivalent car, but presently there's really no matching platform in my opinion. Even an AWD, 300hp 3-series would be slightly downsized. And the 6 competes more in the Legacy category (if they had not discontinued the MS6 that is).

 

[Betelgeuse]

It is comparing the company's middle grade car to the top of line of another, and they really arent' direct competitors because one car is a regular long term trim, and the other is an exculsive top of line.

Either way, kudos to Mazda. However, Subaru could easily build a better car, so we must respect the WRX for what it is, which is a car meant for just as many average people as enthusiasts who can't afford an STI. They are far more advanced in performance then Mazda as of now. It would be nice to see Mazda try and compete with the STI one day. They got some catching up to do, but perhaps one day. The only problem is that they can never match Subaru's superior AWD system.

Mazda can easily build an STI killer if they want to but that's not their focus market for now. They're a company that needs to increase volume sales in order to become more profitable and competitive. And the enthusiast market is only so big. I mean, in all seriousness, they wiped the floor with the WRX and really didn't even try that hard. Subaru's savior right now is AWD and the fact that the competition (with a few exceptions) really hasn't jumped on that bandwagon.

 

[AeroSquid]

It is comparing the company's middle grade car to the top of line of another, and they really arent' direct competitors because one car is a regular long term trim, and the other is an exculsive top of line.

Either way, kudos to Mazda. However, Subaru could easily build a better car, so we must respect the WRX for what it is, which is a car meant for just as many average people as enthusiasts who can't afford an STI. They are far more advanced in performance then Mazda as of now. It would be nice to see Mazda try and compete with the STI one day. They got some catching up to do, but perhaps one day. The only problem is that they can never match Subaru's superior AWD system.

don't say never.

 

[MS6S2K]

Mazda can easily build an STI killer if they want to but that's not their focus market for now. They're a company that needs to increase volume sales in order to become more profitable and competitive. And the enthusiast market is only so big. I mean, in all seriousness, they wiped the floor with the WRX and really didn't even try that hard. Subaru's savior right now is AWD and the fact that the competition (with a few exceptions) really hasn't jumped on that bandwagon.

The WRX is purposely made the way it is. It's detuned, it's got all seasons, and it's softened up, so of course the Speed 3 is gonna be better performance wise. Hell it better be. If they didn't beat a a middle trim Subaru car with their top of line trim, there'd be some serious problems for Mazda. The middle of the road WRX is basically inches from swinging it in the other direction, but the STI needs to stand alone, and you can't have a WRX directly behind it, or no one would buy an STI. COMMON SENSE 101.

With that said, I love Mazda's future. I just don't see them having the ability to compete with Mitsubishi and Subaru, nor would they attempt to. It's kind of both ways. They don't want to, and they can't right now. Too much starting from scratch against two cars that have been out for many years.

They would hurt themselves financially if they tried to compete, and they can't build a rally car like those companies can. this is coming from someone who loves both car companies equally, and is 100% objective. You are very partial, as your response proves.



ZooZoom: I wasn't preaching to the chior. I was just getting my 2 cents in before the partiality kicked in. I'm with ya man!!! Not meant towards you.

 

[Betelgeuse]

and they can't build a rally car like those companies can.

Making statements like that doesn't help your credibility either. The STI (like the EVO) comes from rally roots, I agree, but they're NOT rally cars in stock form. I've seen videos of what it takes to build a real rally car.

Considering the price range and market the ms3 was aiming for with its release, to call it Mazda's top-of-the-line model is laughable. The ms6 was supposed to be that. The ms3 just had a lot of power but it's still a FWD budget performer aimed squarely at the sub 25k market. You really think Mazda was even remotely aiming for the STI with the ms3?

 

[nvmsp]

Competition....that's what they have the rx7 for.

 

[TheMAN]

<snip>
they can't build a rally car like those companies can. this is coming from someone who loves both car companies equally, and is 100% objective. You are very partial, as your response proves.
<snip>

mazda CAN
back in the 80s and early 90s, mazda, nissan, and toyota dominated the japanese line of WRC cars... sure they didn't kill everyone like lancia and audi did, but they were competitive.... mazda had the 323/Familia GT-R in 1992 and that car was far better than the Nissan Pulsar GTi-R... it was more reliable and had a better chassis design... it won only the select few rallys but not the overall seasons only because of the limited time the car was around... then the money dried up in 93 and mazda (as well as nissan) pulled out of the WRC altogether.... had mazda (and nissan) have the funds and continued on with their rally program, they would've been able to dominate the WRC by the mid-90s just like mitsubishi and subaru eventually had... misubishi and subaru wasn't even in the picture when mazda and nissan was doing rallying... eras separated by a few years

the whole point is, given money and TIME, you CAN build a bad ass rally car

mazda HAS the technology and capability to build rally cars so don't say they can't build anything that can't compete

 

[Ryz]

It is comparing the company's middle grade car to the top of line of another, and they really arent' direct competitors because one car is a regular long term trim, and the other is an exculsive top of line.

I've seen this response before and it always confuses me. What does it matter if they are the same price? Does this insinuate that the Subi is an overpriced piece of s***?

 

[MS6S2K]

Making statements like that doesn't help your credibility either. The STI (like the EVO) comes from rally roots, I agree, but they're NOT rally cars in stock form. I've seen videos of what it takes to build a real rally car.

Considering the price range and market the ms3 was aiming for with its release, to call it Mazda's top-of-the-line model is laughable. The ms6 was supposed to be that. The ms3 just had a lot of power but it's still a FWD budget performer aimed squarely at the sub 25k market. You really think Mazda was even remotely aiming for the STI with the ms3?

Performance wise right now it is, so no laughing here. We can't just look at everything by price because we are not looking at the big picture. What is Mazda's fastest vehicle right now? WHat is Subaru's fastest vehicle right now? Speaking of credibility, when you can't be objective and see things for what they are, there's not all that much there yourself. If you are gonna type that to me, be sure to quote the guy that said "I mean, in all seriousness, they wiped the floor with the WRX and really didn't even try that hard." That's where credibility is SHOT.

Whether or not a car company can make a better performing vehicle is not based on price, it's based on REAL TIME. Subaru has a far better vehicle right now. Doesn't make them a better company. Just playing fair here, so don't be questioning my credibility, question your own. Financially I don't think Mazda can right now, nor would they want to. That's all I'm saying.

As for the quote from me, I was speaking of the Rally heritage of their race cars. Last time I checked, in the rally circuit Subaru and Mitsubishi were the top dogs. so those ROOTS play a big role in how the production vehicle is built. Subarus are just more solidly built IMO then Mazda.

 

[MS6S2K]

I've seen this response before and it always confuses me. What does it matter if they are the same price? Does this insinuate that the Subi is an overpriced piece of s***?

It's just stating that magazines compare the Speed 3 to the WRX, like Subaru tried to beat the Speed 3 and failed. There's a higher model available for a different type of enthusiast, and the WRX is more of a consumer vehicle, not an enthusiast vehicle like the Speed 3.

Anyway, I'm out of this conversation. I just would like to see people be a little more objective. Subaru and Mazda are both great car companies. Subaru is just higher up on the performance platform right now. All in due time.

 

[ALIEN3T]

i think for one dosent subura also make a n/a model still.

btu in all if you read the pamphlets the ms3 wasnt put out to compete with the awd models. everyone puts it there.
the ms3 in the book was to compete with the cobalt ss and the civic si. cause thats the class there in. I would expect subura would hve a better car for one its a diffrent class. mazda really sdosent have soemthgi in the same class as the evo and sti. not the class or cars they were competing with. But the cars keeps gettign put with them. But the fact it does says somethgi about it.

 

[kura808]

mazda should make an AWD rotary xD is that even possible? lol

anywayz props to mazda. the subaru looks like rolling all over the place while the ms3 is doing ballet xD

 

[Ryz]

It's just stating that magazines compare the Speed 3 to the WRX, like Subaru tried to beat the Speed 3 and failed. There's a higher model available for a different type of enthusiast, and the WRX is more of a consumer vehicle, not an enthusiast vehicle like the Speed 3.

What does this have to do with anything? Your statement earlier was basically "they compared top of the line to bottom, what do you expect?" and you don't seem to understand the concept of their bottom costing as much as our top.

 

[freakyflow7]

What does this have to do with anything? Your statement earlier was basically "they compared top of the line to bottom, what do you expect?" and you don't seem to understand the concept of their bottom costing as much as our top.

I have to agree here, I'd say the two biggest factors when you're comparing cars is price range and market. If I use the logic that SPD6 was using you could compare a Mazdaspeed 3 to an SL 55 AMG (top of the line).. its almost absurd to even consider, two very different prices and two very different markets, however they are both top of the line.

SPD6 talked about the big picture, but the big picture isn't comparing a 55,000 car vs a 25, 000 car, and its not certainly throwing each companies top models at each other.

Seriously, to even consider Mazda thought they were competing against the STI with their Mazdaspeed is kind of a low blow. I'm pretty sure they were thinking lets make a car less than $25,000 that kicks ass compared to what is out there.

WRX is in a *head-to-head* competition with the Mazdaspeed and there is no way around that. Both appeal to the same buyers, both around the same price range, both good cars from very good car makers. I fail to see how this is not a fair comparison?

 

[laloosh]

the wrx is a consumer car? Really? Up untill 2007 they had "TUNER READY" version that was a stripped won pos with nothing in that that still cost over 25k.

However i do agree that once you mod both cars the only thing a speed 3 will be faster in is a straight line from a roll. Thats where it stops. Btw im talkinga bout the 2k7 wrx not this ugly thing.
People dont seem to understand that if you put a set 17x8 with sticky tires and some coilovers ont hat wrx it will beat the snot out a speed 3 with the same mods.

You dont believe me? Go watch a stx prepped wrx and be amazed lol

 

[SPEED305]

It's just stating that magazines compare the Speed 3 to the WRX, like Subaru tried to beat the Speed 3 and failed. There's a higher model available for a different type of enthusiast, and the WRX is more of a consumer vehicle, not an enthusiast vehicle like the Speed 3.

Anyway, I'm out of this conversation. I just would like to see people be a little more objective. Subaru and Mazda are both great car companies. Subaru is just higher up on the performance platform right now. All in due time.

partially agreed.

 

[TheMAN]

what the WRX has been marketed in the past is true, but now the 08 WRX has changed... overall subaru wants to market the impreza to the mass market more... they took the gripes from old foggies that owned the wrx in the past and did just that... plush up the ride but still having the performance power of the car... I agree that it's retarded... they should be buying a legacy gt instead but of course that's an expensive car

what they should've done is market this new WRX as a "GT" model and make a real WRX by having more goodies just like the past WRX's to live up to its name... right now the new WRX is a mockery to its name

sorry, but the whole impreza line up has been watered down now "to compete" with the general mass market... was the styling on the 06-07 really that oddball? they perfected the GD impreza and they go back to the ugliness all over again