MS3 in the Wet!

[f50spyder]

Well I have been pleased so far with my MS3 and have about 2500 on it so far. But I finally found something I don't like, its driving this thing in the rain!!! We have had quite a bit of rain in PA lately and coming home from work I had an eye opener with the dry confidence this car gives you then all of a sudden one good rain and whoooaaa! These OEM tires are not a good rain tires at all. Hydroplaned at 50 on up no matter if it was standing water or just wet roads. Owners beware! I will be looking into a very good set of tires for the next set unless someone has already found something that works for them. Please post your experience with a good wet dry intermediate tire. This car in the wet reminds me of my Porsche 944 I used to own. It to sucked in the rain. (boom08)

 

[adamsredms3]

Actually, I felt quite the opposite way when I drove the car in the rain today. Pushed it on the rainy highway at 80+ and the car felt fine. Even around turns the car was glued to the wet pavement. Unless you have been super hard on your tires in the dry I can't imagine 2500 miles would turn them into slicks? I only have 350 miles on mine but regardless the reviews of this tire have been great and I would agree-check out tireracks website for reviews. With the amount of tourque the car has though, hitting the go pedal too hard would make almost any tire out there hydroplane.

 

[BlackJack]

Yeh, just had my first experience today in wet weather. The car kept spinning out of traffic lights and whatnot. But when my friend took it on the highway, it was fine she got it up to 100 and no problems

I would consider changing to better tires, but I think the stock are perfectly fine because it's just the superhigh torque that's doing the work.

 

[Hikaru9]

My MS3 handles awesome in the wet and in the snow although the very first thing I did within hours of getting the car was to swap out the OEM tires with Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S. So far, I've been really happy with the performance of those tires.

 

[f50spyder]

MS3 in the wet

My MS3 handles awesome in the wet and in the snow although the very first thing I did within hours of getting the car was to swap out the OEM tires with Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S. So far, I've been really happy with the performance of those tires.

Well there was alot of rain and the roads had been wet and puddled for a while but I got to tell you the car just didn't like it above 60 mph in those conditions and I wasn't hot dogging it either. Will check out the tire reviews on Tire rack.

 

[Mike V]

I drove 8 hours in the rain yesterday from TX to MO. The only hydroplaning I had was in northeast OK where there was a little standing water in the passing lane on I-44. The big problem I had was when I hit snow about 10 miles from my house. It was the craziest snow I've ever seen - the flakes were more like snowballs. They were at least 1.5" in diameter!

 

[Kosh]

I love driving but hate driving in the rain. Ever since I hit standing water at 80 in my old car and did a 580 on I-85 I tense up and any little wheel movement and my heart drops. I haven't taken this car out in the rain yet but I'll probably still be in the slow lane getting passed by grandma

 

[SSCharged]

i dont know much about the MS3, but my cobalt sucks in the rain, its the tires that do it.

 

[f50spyder]

MS3 in the wet

i dont know much about the MS3, but my cobalt sucks in the rain, its the tires that do it.

I agree. Its got to be the tires. A decent set of intermediates and it should improve drastically.

 

[adamsredms3]

Its not the tires. They are fine. Here is a clip from the Tirerack review of the tire. The only 2 things this tire does not like are snow, duh, and cold temps - much like any high performance tire.

From Tirerack.com:

"The Potenza RE050A is a Max Performance Summer tire designed to complement the performance of sports cars, sports coupes and sport sedans. While the Potenza RE050 is used as Original Equipment on the supercharged Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG sedan, a Potenza RE050A Scuderia version is used on the 12-cylinder Enzo Ferrari supercar, and a Run Flat version is used on the BMW Z4 sports cars and 5-Series sedans. The Potenza RE050A was developed to provide good traction along with responsive and predictable dry and wet road handling. It is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

Here is a tip that a racing instructor once told me for all driving situations, specifically wet ones. Treat the gas pedal as if there was an egg between your foot and the pedal. I know thats not as fun as mashing it but it will definitely lessen your chances of hydroplaning or experiencing excessive wheel slip in a car like the MS3.

 

[h0rde]

I'll disagree with the above poster and say that it is, in fact, the tires. The OEM Bridgestones are garbage. I had them on my RX-8, and of course on my MS3. I switched to high-performance all seasons (bridgestone 960 pole positions) and they do much better on wet roads. There's really no reason for any driving enthusiast to leave OEM rubber on a car, unless by some chance the company actually supplies you with good tires. Mazda does not.

 

[WagonMan]

I'll disagree with the above poster and say that it is, in fact, the tires. The OEM Bridgestones are garbage. I had them on my RX-8, and of course on my MS3. I switched to high-performance all seasons (bridgestone 960 pole positions) and they do much better on wet roads. There's really no reason for any driving enthusiast to leave OEM rubber on a car, unless by some chance the company actually supplies you with good tires. Mazda does not.

Yeah just like those jerks at Ferrari who use the Potenza RE050 as standard equip on the F430. Those guys always put junk rubber on their cars, nothing but fancy Fiats IMHO.

So as a driving "enthusiast" you switched to high performance all seaon tires from high performance summer tires, just so you could get better wet performance and give up performance everywhere else.

 

[h0rde]

Yeah just like those jerks at Ferrari who use the Potenza RE050 as standard equip on the F430. Those guys always put junk rubber on their cars, nothing but fancy Fiats IMHO.

So as a driving "enthusiast" you switched to high performance all seaon tires from high performance summer tires, just so you could get better wet performance and give up performance everywhere else.

The RE050s are garbage on the F430 as well, chief. I've read more than one comparison test in which the editors griped that the Ferrari could have been faster on better tires.
As for your other point, I switched to all seasons because I live in the northeast and I don't have a choice, I have to be able to drive in snow. My all seasons do have better wet performance than the OEM summers, as far as I have observed in my driving.

 

[voiceKoil]

I'll disagree with the above poster and say that it is, in fact, the tires. The OEM Bridgestones are garbage. I had them on my RX-8, and of course on my MS3. I switched to high-performance all seasons (bridgestone 960 pole positions) and they do much better on wet roads. There's really no reason for any driving enthusiast to leave OEM rubber on a car, unless by some chance the company actually supplies you with good tires. Mazda does not.

The MS3 stock tires are very nice summer tires.....What are you talking about???? They could be wider, but they are by no means CHEAP GARBAGE because they are OEM, THEY ARE ACTUALLY SOME OF THE HIGHEST RATED HIGH PERFORMANCE TIRES OUT, Allseasons would obviously ride better in rain because thats what they are made for, hense the title ALL SEASON tires, not High performance summer tires that are mostly intended for warm dry roads... The only problem I have had with them is accelerating in the rain, spins around 3k rpms. Im not trying to total my car by speeding around hard corners in downpours.... Wait for the good weather.

 

[WTF MATE]

Car manufacturers put certain tires on their cars for a reason, millions of dollars goes into suspension setups and they find the best tire to go with the suspension on the car, so usually on a performance car, the best all around tires are going to be the oem ones, unless of course you plan on getting some R compounds. Also the Potenzas RE01s are one of the best tires out there, and as far as i'm concerned have outstanding grip wet or dry, you can't compare this car to other cars in the wet with different tires, and like previously stated if your roads are freezing up in PA that might be the problem.

 

[WagonMan]

The OEM tires are the same ones used by many high end manufactures on their performance models, such as BMW and Mercedes. So I would say Mazda is in pretty good company. I suspect my new car to be delivered in a couple of weeks will be riding on these in the runflat version. I will be happy to let my wife drive around my two kids with these tires, and be confident they will offer excellent three season performance. More confident then I would be with her driving around on any all-season tire. Just like my Mazda, the new car will have dedicated winter tires, which is the only way to go if you live in a snowy area.

The OEMs are not the best high performance summer tire out there, but they are certainly not garbage. I suspect OEMs like them because they have a reasonably compliant ride for a high performance summer tire. When OEMs select tires it is always a trade off between performance and comfort.

In the car and driver summer tire test they ranked third in the two wet tests, and mid-pack in the dry performance tests. They lost points due to having a very low tread wear score.

Regarding hydroplaning, it is not just standing water that you need to worry about as very heavy rain will lower the hydroplaning threshhold. Every tire has a certain volume of water that it can evacuate through its tread pattern. In heavy rain the film of water on the road will be thicker, as water can only drain off the road at a given rate. So although you may not be in standing water, your tires are still working harder to evacuate the water from its treads. Add some standing water in that situation and you can overwhelm the tire and end up hydroplaning.

A puddle that would be no problem in the dry can lead to hydroplaning in heavy rain, because the tire will already be operating closer to its limits.

I have taken the OEM tires off my MS3, and put my winter tires on the stock rims. I have new rims with Falken RT-615 tires, 245 size, for summer. I have traded off wet weather performance for dry weather performance, that is a compromise I am willing to make. Every tire is a compromise in some way, Mazda just selected the tire it thought offered the best all around performance.

Personally I think OEMs should use the Goodyear F1 GSD3 as stock summer only tires, as they offer a better set of compromises then any other high performance summer tire I have used.

 

[h0rde]

I'll concede to stop calling them "garbage" (although that's still how I feel,) but the fact remains that you can buy better tires for less money. On tirerack right now the 050As are rated 7th in their performance category, not impressive. With the treadwear rating so low, they'll probably only last 20,000 miles before they become downright dangerous on wet roads. When that time comes, will you buy a new set? If the answer is no, then what's the reason to be content with them on the car right now?

Point is, tire choice is extremely important, and you can do better than 90% of OEM offerings, including these 050As. I agree with WagonMan that the Goodyear F1 GSD3s would be a better choice; in fact they will be my choice if I buy a new set of wheels and tires for summer only. I also maintain that BFG's T/KDW-2s are also a better all-around choice for summer tire than the 050As.

 

[f50spyder]

MS3 in the wet

I'll concede to stop calling them "garbage" (although that's still how I feel,) but the fact remains that you can buy better tires for less money. On tirerack right now the 050As are rated 7th in their performance category, not impressive. With the treadwear rating so low, they'll probably only last 20,000 miles before they become downright dangerous on wet roads. When that time comes, will you buy a new set? If the answer is no, then what's the reason to be content with them on the car right now?

Point is, tire choice is extremely important, and you can do better than 90% of OEM offerings, including these 050As. I agree with WagonMan that the Goodyear F1 GSD3s would be a better choice; in fact they will be my choice if I buy a new set of wheels and tires for summer only. I also maintain that BFG's T/KDW-2s are also a better all-around choice for summer tire than the 050As.

Drove on the wet roads yesterday and was doing 80mph no problem. Roads were just wet, not drenched and still coming down. Would I buy these tires again. Not really because I now know there's better out there and for less money and will last longer. Got to say this is one of the better threads. Alot of personal input and important to everyone.

 

[major error]

So long as we're still talking about the Goodyear RS-A....
WagonMan made some pretty important points about hydroplaning, and I'd like to expand on them with some comparisons from my tire experiences.

Dunlop GT Qualifier S: (94 Ranger 225/70-14 1999-2002) Solid tire with long treadwear (60k+ miles!) and low noise. A very good all-weather tire that handled all conditions adaquately.

Dunlop Radial Rover A/T: (94 Ranger 225/70-14 2002-2004) A good inclement weather tire, but loud and fast treadwear.

Firestone Indy500: (94 Ranger 225/70-14 2004-? [veh. sold 2006]) Improved wet handling compared to Qualifiers, but had a tendency to drift. Treadwear similar to Qualifiers.

Goodyear RS-A: (07 3 205/50-17) My Tire Rack review: (overall score 4.7)
For dry weather, these tires are excellent with a "riding on rails" feeling--very responsive with great handling. In wet weather, traction and handling diminished more than expected, and even small amounts of running or standing water on the road were enough to loosen their grip noticeably. Given the amount of snow we've received this winter season, I can honestly say these tires are practically worthless when snow is on the roadway! They lose grip under anything more than the barest amount of acceleration (from dead-stop) and offer only a tenuous grip in straight-line driving. [I plan on replacing with dedicated winter tires for next winter and having another set of wheels/tires for summer driving.]

As far as my tire purchases are concerned, I tend to look at tread pattern first. After looking at the above patterns, I think it's pretty obvious why the RS-A falls flat in bad weather--there are sizable "dead ends" in the tread blocks opening toward the center of the contact patch. Instead of liquid passing to the other side and out of the contact patch, it's trapped and traction is reduced.
You'd also need to consider the types of roads being driven on. New concrete is preferable to old asphalt. Around where I live, there's lots more old asphalt than anything else, and shrinking budgets and heavy traffic have left their mark (quite literally!) As such, even a light-but-prolonged rain will leave standing water everywhere thanks to all the ruts pressed into the road surface...

Based on what others have said in response to my tire questions, my starting points for replacement specifically for the 3 in my area would be a dedicated snow tire, and another tire with a tread pattern similar to the Kumho ASX or the Kumho MX

Given past experience and what I've already said about tread patterns, either of these (or similar) should handle less-than-perfect weather quite well, comparatively...

 

[voiceKoil]

I'll concede to stop calling them "garbage" (although that's still how I feel,) but the fact remains that you can buy better tires for less money. On tirerack right now the 050As are rated 7th in their performance category, not impressive. With the treadwear rating so low, they'll probably only last 20,000 miles before they become downright dangerous on wet roads. When that time comes, will you buy a new set? If the answer is no, then what's the reason to be content with them on the car right now?

Point is, tire choice is extremely important, and you can do better than 90% of OEM offerings, including these 050As. I agree with WagonMan that the Goodyear F1 GSD3s would be a better choice; in fact they will be my choice if I buy a new set of wheels and tires for summer only. I also maintain that BFG's T/KDW-2s are also a better all-around choice for summer tire than the 050As.

I know that I certainly wont be buying another exact set, because I would much rather have some 235/40/18s. I however WOULD buy them again if I got a good deal on the size I wanted, if not then I would most likely buy some toyo proxes, conti pros, or yokohamas blah blah blah something in that range that I can find a deal on. Im not planning on dying with these tires but Im satisfied now because they came FREE with the car, I didnt pay to get these tires as an upgrade, just like noone else has, just like the stock rims, the stock turbo, the stock tmic, the stock exhaust etc.... Doesnt mean their complete crap, to some degree their great, but if you have to buy any of them to replace, might as well upgrade right????? I honestly dont think we could expect any more from a stock tire, am I wrong?


I had kumho ASXs on another set of 18s for the winter, I didnt drive the car much in snow, but they did fine. Ive got the stockers back on and am once again happy to accel as expected versus spinning at 4000rpm with the ASX tire. That gets very annoying