MPI Tunner Issue

[igdrasil]

UPDATE Sept 10, 2004:

AFTER 250 miles on the rewiring....the MPI is now working PERFECT.
The car is behaving like it should. No more hesitations, no more issues at all. It was a wiring problem.

Il try to be very short.

Im having a big headache with what I think is a "fuel/ignition cut".

Just for the record. The laptop has just been formatted, reinstaled Windows XP, all updates, antivirus, Xp SP2 and the tunner software. The tunner has been reset, a whole new map has been uploaded based on chas map from 7/22/2004 using the FM O2 clamp, adtitional (4) injectors, no TM being activated (happens the same if activating it).

It only happens on boost and its very repetitive. The program freezes constantly, and sometimes some other strange things are happening and Im going to list some that just happened Yesterday Saturday 28, 2004.

Im going to include some log files and pictures. I need all the help you guys can give with all this.

 

[igdrasil]

Problem 1: Bad maps randomly appears

Whats this....The car starts nice...drives normally, I stop to do something, shutoff and restart and as I drive it the car feels too damn erratic. So I connect the laptop to the tunner and this is what I see.

Whats supposed to mean?

Sorry, meant to quote you.
-Linux

 

[igdrasil]

Problem 2: Fuel cuts or what?

Looks and feel like a fuel or ignition cut, but the tunner gets crazy when this happens. For 1ms all readings go all around the map. You will need to replay the log file and see for yourself. This happens a lot, like 3-10 times every 30min - 1hour depending on how often I go into boost.

 

[igdrasil]

Problem 3 Off charts after boost

In this situation after a pull in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear, notice in 4th gear how the ANALOG OUT sends a wrong voltage. WHY???? Notice that the Analog in is still sending the correct values!

After that, The car is not driveable, I have to pull to the side shutoff and start again the car.

Download the log file and run it, you will see how I try to continue the drive in the highway with no luck!!!

 

[MPNick]

Il try to be very short.

Im having a big headache with what I think is a "fuel/ignition cut".

Just for the record. The laptop has just been formatted, reinstaled Windows XP, all updates, antivirus, Xp SP2 and the tunner software. The tunner has been reset, a whole new map has been uploaded based on chas map from 7/22/2004 using the FM O2 clamp, adtitional (4) injectors, no TM being activated (happens the same if activating it).

It only happens on boost and its very repetitive. The program freezes constantly, and sometimes some other strange things are happening and Im going to list some that just happened Yesterday Saturday 28, 2004.

Im going to include some log files and pictures. I need all the help you guys can give with all this.

Are you using a USB adaptor or the com 1 port?

E-mail me the file you are running. Take it from your laptop not the file you were sent.

 

[igdrasil]

Are you using a USB adaptor or the com 1 port?

E-mail me the file you are running. Take it from your laptop not the file you were sent.

Email sent. Not using USB, just the Serial Port from the back of my laptop and the cable from the MPI, no extensions or anything at all.

Another note

Doing changes online its unpredictable, it could take some and then after a few minutes or when the fuel cut happens or any other issue, it stops making changes online, you can see then while you input the numbers, but if you go offline and go back online, you will see that all inputs are gone or at least the last 5-10 minutes of changes has been lost.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Whats this....The car starts nice...drives normally, I stop to do something, shutoff and restart and as I drive it the car feels too damn erratic. So I connect the laptop to the tunner and this is what I see.

Whats supposed to mean?

Sorry, meant to quote you.
-Linux

I have had this issue only ONE TIME. I was like :wtf:

 

[igdrasil]

Yeah well...the MPI and all my effort to tune this thing has 1 month, september, to work. If this thing doesnt work, Ill be forced to sell it because its going to blow the engine.

Sometimes its just like a dream and how the power feels, and the pull....then suddently, a fuel or ignition cut...not one, or 2, but 3 or more in one pull from 1st to 4th gear....and the program freezes, sometimes it wakes up sometimes it doesnt.

And sometimes it happens when boost builds up in mild acceleration. 75% of every WOT pull, I have to shutoff the engine and restart.

 

[igdrasil]

Nick:

I sent you an email. The tunner has no control over my stock injectors anymore and car is handling the boost better. Yesterday was the first time ever I run 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear without problems, 2 times...!!!!!! And the leaning issues are minimized too!!!

It sure did 2 fuel cuts while driving around, specially when trying to boost all the rpm band starting @ 2000rpm. Could be that before the clamp goes...im injecting fuel, thus later making the cut.

BUT, I found that my unit is still having an issue with the analog out voltage...and I think if this is having this problem, maybe it has other issues causing the cuts? Check the attachment.

 

[MPNick]

Nick:

I sent you an email. The tunner has no control over my stock injectors anymore and car is handling the boost better. Yesterday was the first time ever I run 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear without problems, 2 times...!!!!!! And the leaning issues are minimized too!!!

It sure did 2 fuel cuts while driving around, specially when trying to boost all the rpm band starting @ 2000rpm. Could be that before the clamp goes...im injecting fuel, thus later making the cut.

BUT, I found that my unit is still having an issue with the analog out voltage...and I think if this is having this problem, maybe it has other issues causing the cuts? Check the attachment.

Why are you running the analong output if you are not controlling the stock injectors? I will not guarantee that your MPI Tuner is not defective at this point in time. If it is it would be the first defective unit we have had.

I do know that everytime anyone has had any problem like you are talking about it has come down to bad wireing, bad tuning, or other problem with the car. If you send the unit back to me I can test it and make sure that it is working fine. After I test it and it checks out fine[more then likely], I will send it back.

Then you will have to take a step back and look at your car part by part and find the problem. By not tuning the stock injectors you are already hurting any chance you have of ever getting your car to run right, but it is you car and you can do what you want.

 

[igdrasil]

Why are you running the analong output if you are not controlling the stock injectors?

To monitor the MAF and to see if some of the stumbling and issues were the analog output. SO far, I solved 1 issue, I can boost the car and it will not die on me.

Now Im going to remove the unit carefully and run the car with FMU alone. I just dont know when....

 

[MPNick]

To monitor the MAF and to see if some of the stumbling and issues were the analog output. SO far, I solved 1 issue, I can boost the car and it will not die on me.

Now Im going to remove the unit carefully and run the car with FMU alone. I just dont know when....

You use the input to read the MAF not the output.

 

[505zoom]

...By not tuning the stock injectors you are already hurting any chance you have of ever getting your car to run right, but it is you car and you can do what you want.

Why do you always say stuff like this Nick? Now that I am running the setup that I am, it is starting to bother me more and more. Why do you insist that the stock injectors must be tuned? I have been having the best success that I have ever had now that I am running your unit for EIC and spark timing only. The MPI tuner causes issues with the car off of boost, period. IF it isn't causing issues off of boost, than it causes issues when making then transition from boost to vac. Now that I am not using the MPI tuner to control my stock fuel, it is running great again.

 

[MPNick]

Why do you always say stuff like this Nick? Now that I am running the setup that I am, it is starting to bother me more and more. Why do you insist that the stock injectors must be tuned? I have been having the best success that I have ever had now that I am running your unit for EIC and spark timing only. The MPI tuner causes issues with the car off of boost, period. IF it isn't causing issues off of boost, than it causes issues when making then transition from boost to vac. Now that I am not using the MPI tuner to control my stock fuel, it is running great again.

I do not think you ever got the hang of setup the unit right. So your car is now running better then before? That proves my point that you never got a got the unit running right before.

I have lot of people running the system without any problems. I also have some people who have had problems. But look at your setup. You had some wires not setup right. You also had a cracked by-pass valve I think, that caused a big leak. We talked about your car and e-mailed each other a million times when you first got your system up and running. Then you had problems with it. It took you a while to find the problems with your car. How many times did I ask you to send me a datalog with the O2 reading right along [with a fix your car note]? I know you were getting mad everytime I ask you to fix your car but how can I help you with tuning when I know that you had problem with your car? I think Pat elp you with the O2 wires and then later you found the fix with leak.

I have seen the system work 100% when tuned right on a car without problems. When I see people make post that they are haveing problems getting the unit to work right I only see it as one thing. They are not tuning it right.

As for your car, you are not getting the most out of the MPI Tuner system. You should tune the stock injectors along with the extra injectors. You also lose out on the fuel cut. The new TM would be easier to tune then the older unit you have. I could sent you one if you like.

Igdrasil is having some problems also. I know he has things that are not right with his car. I cannot tell you what they are because I am not working on the car. His posts sound alike like your e-mail to me before you found and fixed the problems with your car. You have to understand that you cannot tune problems out of your car, the car needs to be fixed first.

 

[Focus]

I do not think you ever got the hang of setup the unit right. So your car is now running better then before? That proves my point that you never got a got the unit running right before.

I have to agree with Nick on this point. I too was having problems, both with the operation of the unit and with the software.

As far as the unit goes, it was me that forgot to connect one of the wires on the TM. Funny thing is, when I double checked it, I forgot the wire a second time.

As for the software, Nick there might be a bug in the software, cause I had to remove it twice and reinstall it. Wouldn't let me save maps. The other issue I had with the software is that I was to eager to make changes, and I never let the changes I made a few minutes earlier take effect. I hope this helps others tuning.

I am still in the process of learning this unit, but I can say that it does work like a charm when tuned right!

 

[LinuxRacr]

I have to agree with Focus. I know that if I had more tuning experience, I could have gotten the unit to work better with the TM. After talking to Beau (MAMotorsports) and Scott (SMP3000) the unit works when tuned properly (thus far). I admit that I lack the experience to tune like Beau or Nick. I want to be a tuner, so I have to learn. Unfortunately, my car is my daily driver and I have a busy life, so I took a temporary shortcut with the FM clamp. The FM clamp isn't even 100% at all. Sometimes it is a little lazy. That is the value of having the right gauges and meters when tuning. I would never do this without some type of wideband, and J&S Safeguard.

 

[igdrasil]

Ok good...the unit works. But what if I do changes online and the MPI tunner doesnt take them! How Im going to tune this thing?

You use the input to read the MAF not the output.

Then what does the OUTPUT do? Isnt the output what the MPI sends to the ECU?

 

[Metal MP5]

I would never do this without some type of wideband, and J&S Safeguard.

this makes me feel alot better about spending all that money for my WB and J&S =)

I might also buy the MPI in the next few days ... so you guys fix all those problems and let me know bout them so i'll know how to fix them right away (yes) hehe

 

[505zoom]

I most definitely had it wired correctly after I got the AFR reading working. My biggest (not only) problems were random leaning/stumbling at idle, and a surge when the TM turned off under partial throttle. These problems have been reported by many of your customers, not just me and igdrasil. I don't see how it could be my tuning or wiring when just about everyone is having those same problems. I guess some people just aren't as picky as I am about how their car runs off of boost, so that is maybe why you think that some aren't having any problems at all. I for one feel that my car runs perfectly on the stock PCM control when out of boost. I just want to smooth out the pulsy WOT acceleration that most of the msp's have, and make it safer to run more boost by pulling a little timing and adding a little fuel under boost. The setup I am running now is perfect for this. I don't get any weird leaning or stumbling at idle, and I am still holding solid 11's under boost, even now at 17psi. I turned it up last night to race a integra type-r, and it spiked to 19 and held 17. There was no audible pinging and I was holding a solid 11:1 AFR. No more surge with the TM since it is no longer hooked up to the stock fuel.

I am more than willing to try it all again after my motor is built, as I am sure I will need to tune the car more aggresively for the lowered compression. I will go over everything with you again and try to resolve the issues I was having... hopefully you are right and it was something that I overlooked while tuning. I am just slightly worried though because the only msp that is running right is the one that you built and tuned. All of the other msp guys besides me and Dean blew their motors up.

I do not think you ever got the hang of setup the unit right. So your car is now running better then before? That proves my point that you never got a got the unit running right before.

I have lot of people running the system without any problems. I also have some people who have had problems. But look at your setup. You had some wires not setup right. You also had a cracked by-pass valve I think, that caused a big leak. We talked about your car and e-mailed each other a million times when you first got your system up and running. Then you had problems with it. It took you a while to find the problems with your car. How many times did I ask you to send me a datalog with the O2 reading right along [with a fix your car note]? I know you were getting mad everytime I ask you to fix your car but how can I help you with tuning when I know that you had problem with your car? I think Pat elp you with the O2 wires and then later you found the fix with leak.

I have seen the system work 100% when tuned right on a car without problems. When I see people make post that they are haveing problems getting the unit to work right I only see it as one thing. They are not tuning it right.

As for your car, you are not getting the most out of the MPI Tuner system. You should tune the stock injectors along with the extra injectors. You also lose out on the fuel cut. The new TM would be easier to tune then the older unit you have. I could sent you one if you like.

Igdrasil is having some problems also. I know he has things that are not right with his car. I cannot tell you what they are because I am not working on the car. His posts sound alike like your e-mail to me before you found and fixed the problems with your car. You have to understand that you cannot tune problems out of your car, the car needs to be fixed first.

 

[smp3000]

Not to jump on either side but I too, have these same issues at idle and and when the TM turns on/off... I've given up on trying to get the thrusting feeling to go away- and don't see a big issue with it happening- although my GF hates it when it does it and she's in the car lol...

But the idle issue does suck. No matter what I do the idle never remains constant. Lately I've done some tuning to the 1x16 map and have it at about 13's at idle but I'm guessing as usual that after a week or so it will start to lean out again.