- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
What revs do you plan to set the idle at?
Mazdaspeed2oo35 Engine Build Round 2
- Thread starter Mazdaspeed2oo35
- Start date
- Status
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
i believe i had it at 980 rpms or so before
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
You will probably have to explore through trial and error a good rev to set it at that does not resonate in the cabin but also allows a stable, consistent idle.
As I said before, I found that the ideal idle rev for the engine in my car was 1600. The idle is stable (no bouncing), provides enough vacuum to use power brakes, and while it is loud outside of the car, it does not resonate inside (so my head doesn't explode).
As I said before, I found that the ideal idle rev for the engine in my car was 1600. The idle is stable (no bouncing), provides enough vacuum to use power brakes, and while it is loud outside of the car, it does not resonate inside (so my head doesn't explode).
shane02pro5
25ish_psi
- :
- New Caney TX
Being street driven I think that would cause overheating in any kind of stop n go situation.
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
For my application it didn't. However, I don't have the fans wired up to any sort of temperature switch. They are always on and the thermostat kicks open at 170F instead of 190 or 210F.
going for twiggy or integral stage 2+ is going to make your car idle pretty lumpy... it won't necessarily idle complete s*** like a V8 hotrod, but it'll be enough to get noticed... the emissions will suck and you're definitely going to run into those issues
the problem is, the duration of those are so high, that you're going to have to retard the intake cam far and advance the exhaust cam far so that the overlap is reduced... when that happens, you're basically setting up the engine to lose power because the piston probably won't be at TDC when this occurs
there's ways to calculate this s***... I'm sure there are calculators available on the internet to help do this all "on paper"... you need to take time with your tuner to figure this all out in theory so that you can make the right choice for the right cams
otherwise, a protractor, pencil, and paper can do this job too... I know how to look at that s*** on paper that way and LOOK at overlaps and s***
the tried and true way to remain emissions legal is to just get the JDM cams... the intake cam is european legal, while the mazdaspeed/corksport exhaust cam technically isn't... seeing as japanese emissions standards are quite similar to EEC ones, I don't think you will ever have issues with that.... idle is extremely smooth but on colder days it can get a tiny bit lumpy.... I don't think you will see that problem... with 10.5 degrees of overlap, I don't think you want to go much more than that for emissions reasons plus for boost reasons... corky bell said it best in maximum boost, it's difficult to get find good "turbo cams" and sticking with "stock cams" is the best... also 8.6mm of lift is pretty aggressive for stock cams.... many japanese street legal aftermarket cams typically have 9mm lift, FYI
the other attractive thing with the JDM cam setup is price... you are already way over budget with this s***, if you go with any aftermarket setup, it's going to cost you almost 1000 more... with the JDM s***, the base circles are exact factory, meaning they will go on and you won't have to reshim it 90% of the time... that'll save you some money and give you already a significant boost in performance... the 8.1mm lift in the FSD7 cams you have are garbage, so is the wussy overlap and duration... the JDM cams don't look like much over the FSD7 cams, but believe me, they are enough to get the job done and stay legal... I have these in my car and I always make power still at 7000rpm.... the JDM s*** are also the only cams you can bolt in and go without any cam gear tuning mess... ever twiggy cam story I hear is you have to dyno tune with cam gears.... what an expensive waste of time!
Last edited:
yellowmsp035
Member
- :
- Yellow 2003.5 MSP
i have the Integral 2.5s for my build.. ill let you know in a couple months how they are haha
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
Some update people, i almost finished up putting the whole engine together, just minor things, Alternator, Aluminum Pulleys etc. here is how its coming out. About the Cams ill stick with stock ones until i know for sure which ones i need. enjoy the pictures.
This is how the Port and Polish job done to the head looks like !!!
This is how the Port and Polish job done to the head looks like !!!
Last edited:
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 Sport
Looks gorgeous!
special--k
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege
need to get the IM from 505 ASAP!
Twiggy turbo cams (ones that have been fixed, and i believe they all ended up getting fixed in the end) should be bolt in and drive away. Of course cam gears is going to yield the best results for a particular application, but they should be just fine to bolt in.
Never heard of anyone having to "dyno tune with cam gears" - hell i'm still waiting for someone to post a dyno print out of a ride with the twiggys in - afaik, most of them are sitting on shelves in garages gathering dust while people get the rest of their builds together.
The only people who really NEED to muck with cam timing are the people who bought NA or FI cams and are now wanting to run them on the other setup (only difference in the profiles was the pin location - FI had next to no overlap, NA had a truck load) - or people with NA cams who cannot deal with the high idle and lope..
Also, theres no need to shim the Twiggies (can't speak for the integrals) - as they were machined from blanks, and base circle was dialed in correctly at manufacture (they are not regrinds, so the base circle wasn't reduced). The exhaust cam has a larger base circle, but also has different lash specs, so reshimming shouldn't be neccessary. Most people have found moving the shims they already have around a bit gets them within spec.
That being said - they are pretty damned wild for turbo applications. Plenty of people make big gobs of power on the stock and JDM cam setup with a turbo strapped on - and whilst the gains with them would be nice, the reduction in driving pleasure at low RPM in traffic might not be something people want to really deal with ... :S
pretty awesome that you still make power at 7k with the JDM's...mine had the JDM cams from factory (aussie spec etc) and the power fell in a giant hole in the high 5000's....my 7k the motor was absolutely gasping for air.
Last edited:
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
After Sending Juan at Hiboost an Email regarding what Head theyve install in my car and what was the info of the Cams i have, i just got an email back from Juan, and this is what it says, ill translate it to english since it was written in Spanish.
Los arboles de levas no son modificados. Estos son los que vienen de fabrica en el 626 version Japonesa.
Juan Oviedo.
The Cams you have are not modifed, Those are OEM Cams from the JDM Mazda 626 Version.
Juan Oviedo.
I have no idea what that means, if they are good, whats the spec on them since he didnt mention or sent me any info. any thoughts or info about these head and cams .. Thanks.
Los arboles de levas no son modificados. Estos son los que vienen de fabrica en el 626 version Japonesa.
Juan Oviedo.
The Cams you have are not modifed, Those are OEM Cams from the JDM Mazda 626 Version.
Juan Oviedo.
I have no idea what that means, if they are good, whats the spec on them since he didnt mention or sent me any info. any thoughts or info about these head and cams .. Thanks.
Wagonbacker9
Member
- :
- 2004 'Hoe
the FSZE cams are a solid, though somewhat basic compared to the rest of your build, upgrade. I have NO idea however, if the FSZE came in the 626, or if it was just the FDSE. I'd lean toward the FSDE, but still dunno if that means they're much of an upgrade.
heres betting theMAN knows...
heres betting theMAN knows...
they're just plain ol' bad FS-DE 98-99 cams with bad lift and bad duration
sure they were also in JDM and EDM engines, but that doesn't mean a thing... they were in USDM 626s too
who cares what he says, they're just s***
just be glad I saw it and went WTF and made you ask questions
EDIT: the intake cam in that engine now is a DOWNGRADE from the stock MSP/protege cam.... the whole issue is just pitiful and it's amazing it even made 515whp... I'm sure even with just JDM cams, 600whp is attainable
Last edited:
Wagonbacker9
Member
- :
- 2004 'Hoe
BIG +1 to that.
yeah they are quite basic... but they are damn good for the price and what they are.... they are the ones to get if you are on a budget and worried about being legal... for sure they will bolt on with little or no shimming.... I don't know about integrals because hardly anyone has them... but seeing as lordworm says the twiggys also bolt in fine, that's also another possibility... the issue with the aftermarket s*** is, they're damn expensive when you already have major cost overruns in your project... the prospect of having to buy another 200 bucks of shims doesn't settle easy in anyone's stomach
like I said, they're not meant to be better than twiggys or integrals, that's for sure... but if he's really worried about passing emissions, then just stick with the JDM cams... guaranteed to pass, no problems (the intake cam is stock on some EDM 626s and the EDM P5)! the duration isn't awesome but livable, and there is just enough overlap that it works great with a turbo, especially with a good intake manifold and free flowing exhaust
Last edited:
it helps I have the FS-ZE intake manifold
it'd be nice to have actual timing specs of the twiggy cams rather than a plain duration number... that way people can see exactly what they are and what kind of overlap they really have... you think you have those numbers handy?
<rant>
it's really no secret for any sort of cam specs... any good engine builder or machinist can easily reverse engineer this s*** and find out (like what what happened with these FS-DE cams)... this is why a long time ago whoever it was up in indiana making cams (for our cars... forgot who it was) was being all so secret hush hush... I was like, **** your bulls***... major cam companies like crowler and crane actually advertise this s*** because they know that they're not perfectly made, so they encourage installers to use degree wheels to check the s***! but most people still don't know this and upcoming cam makers prey on this fact and rip people off like TBK did to miguel
</rant>
I want to say the 5k rpm wall can be got around with ems tuning. I used to hit that wall too, but then after studying many many fuel maps realized I needed to pull fuel in the higher rpms. After that I could run all the way up to 6500 if I wanted with a/f's in the low 11's. This also has allot to do with my ems programming parameters, and on a different system it may require a totally different approach. Took me a while to understand this, as it was loosely explained to me by the manufacturer of the ems system. However once I got it down it was easy to program properly. Just something to think a little about. 
it helps I have the FS-ZE intake manifold
it'd be nice to have actual timing specs of the twiggy cams rather than a plain duration number... that way people can see exactly what they are and what kind of overlap they really have... you think you have those numbers handy?
<rant>
it's really no secret for any sort of cam specs... any good engine builder or machinist can easily reverse engineer this s*** and find out (like what what happened with these FS-DE cams)... this is why a long time ago whoever it was up in indiana making cams (for our cars... forgot who it was) was being all so secret hush hush... I was like, **** your bulls***... major cam companies like crowler and crane actually advertise this s*** because they know that they're not perfectly made, so they encourage installers to use degree wheels to check the s***! but most people still don't know this and upcoming cam makers prey on this fact and rip people off like TBK did to miguel
</rant>
Um... i think Crazee D has the cam doctor profile. I dont have the specs handy (and dont feel like trawling through a billion posts in the cam threads).
If you are that interested, I can find out..
- Status
