mazdaspeed 3 VS. '06 Civic Si

[doogie]

In my opinion the mazda 3 s is more appealing to a wider market sector for these simple facts. The mazda is a nicer looking car design (opinion reserved), It has four doors as both a hatch back and sedan, has a better chassis, has a bigger four cylinder (more torque) that works better in a real world applications, has more std. features for the money as a package. Now that being said, the MSP 3 should make life for Honda a virtual nightmare for the simple reason that this market segment (import tuner enthusiasts) has been dominated by Honda for years and now the competition is much stronger and the same people are expecting more for there $'s.

Now the other thing is that they are Tuner's out there including ourselves that are working feverishly on aftermarket F/I systems that will bring this great package to an even higher level. So have faith the horizon looks promising for the Mazda 3. As was stated before out right horse power is not the end all be all of a true sports car but package is, however it makes you giggle like a pre-school girl on helium.(rlaugh)

 

[RHAGEL]

Juan's Hiboost kit is pushing over 300hp to the wheels and it's still driveable (or so he says).

I doubt that Mazda would think that much power is drivable.

 

[aOne aTwoooo a3]

The other thing is the cult following that the civic has. and because its not a new engine there's already going to be parts for it. Our aftermarket is slowly building and every large company is quick to make parts for new hondas and stuff. Kinda sux

 

[CHICO2003]

the TL & Maxima both have similar power to the front wheels... not saying it's a good thing but it obviously can be done. still, with the current market, there's no way mazda would come out with an ms3 with 270hp to the front wheels. as far as mazda making 2 cars with essentially the same powertrains, just different bodies and exteriors (and pricetags) I agree, on the surface that doesn't seem to make much sense. Howeverl, if (big if) it DID make sense for them financially to do something like that, I think with the proper marketing they'd be fine. in other words, ms6 owners wouldn't feel like they're getting screwed by paying 7k more for basically the same car (performance wise) if they understand that their car is the "luxury performance car" while the ms3 is the "sport compact". the type of person who wants a luxury performance car (like a mercedez minus the hefty pricetag) is most likely a bit older and requires more space while the crowd that's into sport compacts... well, you get the idea. neither side would want any part of the other, generally, making the pricing almost a non-factor.

that being said, I'll put the crack pipe down cuz there's no way mazda's coming out with a 270hp awd ms3 at around 22grand. that's evo territory ($30k+) it's just a guess but... to me, the awd setup is more important than hp. assuming it's got that, a detuned version of the ms6 should hopefully produce a good 220hp or so. that would make it about as fast as a wrx for (hopefully) much less. this seems more doable and, if they are successful, the whole "limited/rare thing" our cars currently enjoy would become a thing of the past. for better or worse.

 

[Hughes412]

I would never buy the MS6 if I wanted a Luxury car LOL. I like the 6, hell I like Mazda but they have a long way to go to get that rolling buget of plastic into the LUXURY braket.

 

[goldwing2000]

I doubt that Mazda would think that much power is drivable.

Yeah, but who gives a rat's ass what they think? Bunch of weenies... (drive)

 

[RHAGEL]

Yeah, but who gives a rat's ass what they think? Bunch of weenies... (drive)

I couldn't of said it better myself.

 

[RHAGEL]

the TL & Maxima both have similar power to the front wheels... not saying it's a good thing but it obviously can be done. still, with the current market, there's no way mazda would come out with an ms3 with 270hp to the front wheels. as far as mazda making 2 cars with essentially the same powertrains, just different bodies and exteriors (and pricetags) I agree, on the surface that doesn't seem to make much sense. Howeverl, if (big if) it DID make sense for them financially to do something like that, I think with the proper marketing they'd be fine. in other words, ms6 owners wouldn't feel like they're getting screwed by paying 7k more for basically the same car (performance wise) if they understand that their car is the "luxury performance car" while the ms3 is the "sport compact". the type of person who wants a luxury performance car (like a mercedez minus the hefty pricetag) is most likely a bit older and requires more space while the crowd that's into sport compacts... well, you get the idea. neither side would want any part of the other, generally, making the pricing almost a non-factor.

that being said, I'll put the crack pipe down cuz there's no way mazda's coming out with a 270hp awd ms3 at around 22grand. that's evo territory ($30k+) it's just a guess but... to me, the awd setup is more important than hp. assuming it's got that, a detuned version of the ms6 should hopefully produce a good 220hp or so. that would make it about as fast as a wrx for (hopefully) much less. this seems more doable and, if they are successful, the whole "limited/rare thing" our cars currently enjoy would become a thing of the past. for better or worse.

From everything I've read, some of the biggest complaints about the TL, Maxima and Altima are the amount of tourque steer these cars have. I remember reading that with todays suspension set-ups you can really only get about 250 hp (and comparable torque) safely to the wheels of a fwd car without having any sort of problems. At least the Maxima and TL really need to be RWD or AWD to be real "sport sedans". Its the same thing with the new V-8 Impala, 303 hp to the front wheels is horrible and they said it would be a great car if it were RWD. GM needs to keep up with the RWD Magnum/Charger/300 to stay competetive. A lot of 6 owners with the CPE intake and chip complain about the torque steer that the car gets with these mods. So I figure that the next generation 6 is going to need some work before it gets the new 3.5 V-6.

 

[dukefanmaz3]

yea some of those are typical honda guys.....please we all know the mazdaspeed 3 will waste the Si hands down

dude how do u make 118whp with all those mods something is wrong or u have a n auto i have 135whp with exhaust only (wow) (drive)

 

[CHICO2003]

From everything I've read, some of the biggest complaints about the TL, Maxima and Altima are the amount of tourque steer these cars have. I remember reading that with todays suspension set-ups you can really only get about 250 hp (and comparable torque) safely to the wheels of a fwd car without having any sort of problems. At least the Maxima and TL really need to be RWD or AWD to be real "sport sedans". Its the same thing with the new V-8 Impala, 303 hp to the front wheels is horrible and they said it would be a great car if it were RWD. GM needs to keep up with the RWD Magnum/Charger/300 to stay competetive. A lot of 6 owners with the CPE intake and chip complain about the torque steer that the car gets with these mods. So I figure that the next generation 6 is going to need some work before it gets the new 3.5 V-6.

not the "i'm not saying it's a good thing" reference to the shitloads of power to the front wheels thing. that being said, last time I checked acura and nissan are selling tons of these cars so... in the end, to them, that's all that matters. Haven driven both cars I will say that, while a rwd (or awd) set up would clearly be more ideal, the fwd setup isn't THAT bad. (you just have to be careful with the TS) that being said... most of the people who buy these cars aren't exactly nuetral droppin the thing when next to some punk in an srt-4. that's when the TS would be most apparent. If you drive it like a normal car and use the power once you're up and running.... it's manageable.

no comment on the impala... if it's anything like all the other chevy pos (aside from the corvette of course) i could really care less. i hate the previous version with a passion... (could those taillights be any uglier?) so at least they fixed that crap.... i guess. but yeah, 300 hp to the front wheels is a bit extreme. even still, despite what chrysler's recent success with bringing rwd to the market, buyers who live in the upper part of the country are still buying the awd versions of those cars instead. ive never drive one in the snow but heard they suck just like every other rwd car. if gm doesn't have an awd platform to fall back on for the impala, if they had to choose one or the other like most others mfrs, can't blame them for going the safe route. i'm guessing, with it's weight, even at 300 hp the car's at least "driveable". i drove my father in law's DTS with the northstar... not sure about the exact hp but believe it's right up there in the 300range. anyway, that car's a boat and I felt little-to-no TS. the same can't be said for my 170hp msp... so maybe hp isn't the only variable.

 

[Hughes412]

Yea the Impala had some ugly tale lights. I wander what the sale pitch was when the guy thought of those.

But as far as the 300hp goes, I don't see how ya say it's to much. 99% of the people here are looking for as much power as possible in owr cars. With the drive train loss your looking at around 275whp, and in a car that size it wouldn't be that bad at all. True if you try to start off on a turn it wouldn't do much but speen but as for as take off speed that hp and torq would be nice.

Oh and the new impala isn't that bad. Still not an Impala, but it's drivable.

 

[goldwing2000]

But as far as the 300hp goes, I don't see how ya say it's to much. 99% of the people here are looking for as much power as possible in owr cars.

Exactly... people here. People on this board (and people who appreciate horsepower, in general) represent a very small portion of the automobile-purchasing public. Most cars are designed to appeal to the largest market possible, and that ain't us.

 

[RHAGEL]

Exactly... people here. People on this board (and people who appreciate horsepower, in general) represent a very small portion of the automobile-purchasing public. Most cars are designed to appeal to the largest market possible, and that ain't us.

Thats why the aftermarket is so great. Whats better are companies like Mopar who offer factory warranty performance add-ons at a reasonable cost. Its just too bad domestic companies make such ugly cars. I wish some other manufacturer would catch on. Mazda does a so-so job of offering performance upgrades, they just need more power oriented products and to quit trying to gouge everyone with thier prices.

 

[RHAGEL]

not the "i'm not saying it's a good thing" reference to the shitloads of power to the front wheels thing. that being said, last time I checked acura and nissan are selling tons of these cars so... in the end, to them, that's all that matters. Haven driven both cars I will say that, while a rwd (or awd) set up would clearly be more ideal, the fwd setup isn't THAT bad. (you just have to be careful with the TS) that being said... most of the people who buy these cars aren't exactly nuetral droppin the thing when next to some punk in an srt-4. that's when the TS would be most apparent. If you drive it like a normal car and use the power once you're up and running.... it's manageable.

no comment on the impala... if it's anything like all the other chevy pos (aside from the corvette of course) i could really care less. i hate the previous version with a passion... (could those taillights be any uglier?) so at least they fixed that crap.... i guess. but yeah, 300 hp to the front wheels is a bit extreme. even still, despite what chrysler's recent success with bringing rwd to the market, buyers who live in the upper part of the country are still buying the awd versions of those cars instead. ive never drive one in the snow but heard they suck just like every other rwd car. if gm doesn't have an awd platform to fall back on for the impala, if they had to choose one or the other like most others mfrs, can't blame them for going the safe route. i'm guessing, with it's weight, even at 300 hp the car's at least "driveable". i drove my father in law's DTS with the northstar... not sure about the exact hp but believe it's right up there in the 300range. anyway, that car's a boat and I felt little-to-no TS. the same can't be said for my 170hp msp... so maybe hp isn't the only variable.

I agree, the Impala is one ugly MF. But creating an AWD platform for any GM product is out of the question due to financial restaints. I know many domestic manufacturers are partnering with other foreign companies to build hybrid systems, maybe we will see more Subaru AWD systems in GM cars? The Saab 9-2 flopped but who knows. As much as I like Mazda, I would relly like to own an American car. It is sad to see the demise of the American car companies even though I know they did it to themselves. Ford, GM and Chrysler just make some really crappy cars, whether is be ugly or poorly built. Then they give the Europeans cars like the Focus RS and leave us with a horrible looking, dated, POS. I have been reading on The Car Connection that GM will announce its new plans for manufacturing at the beginning of the 4th quarter. This will include the outsourcing of foriegn made parts which will leave american companies such as Eaton and Delphi to prepare for bankrupcy. What is going on here?...this sucks.

 

[Hughes412]

Thats why the aftermarket is so great. Whats better are companies like Mopar who offer factory warranty performance add-ons at a reasonable cost. Its just too bad domestic companies make such ugly cars. I wish some other manufacturer would catch on. Mazda does a so-so job of offering performance upgrades, they just need more power oriented products and to quit trying to gouge everyone with thier prices.

Just to clearify something. I talked to the Dodge dealer here and he said that if you put the stage 1,2,3 upgrade on your car you void your warrenty but the parts that they put on your car are warrented from failer. Thats not the same thing. As far as the public, they love the hp, they just want use it like we would.

 

[RHAGEL]

Just to clearify something. I talked to the Dodge dealer here and he said that if you put the stage 1,2,3 upgrade on your car you void your warrenty but the parts that they put on your car are warrented from failer. Thats not the same thing. As far as the public, they love the hp, they just want use it like we would.

I didn't realize that, but it doesn't matter too much because I would never buy a Neon anyway. Even with 300 hp.