MazdaSpeed 3 TCS/DSC COMPLETELY off.... possibly....

[Gmac03]

I spent the weekend at the autox course and my first three runs were awful. I was extremely dissapointed in how this car handles. From the test drive a week earlier, to driving it as hard and legally as I could on the street I ascertained that this was a semi neutral fwd car. One thing I changed was gutting the trunk of the spare and all associated parts. So I figured I must of changed the weight of the vehicle so much that I was creating crazy understeer. Now my azenis weren't on yet, so I was on street tires, the stock potenza's, so grip was a factor. So I figured that the excessive understeer was due to the weight and the street tires. But i've raced before and even on street tires, I shouldn't have been understeering that much. I was thoroughly dissapointed and figured I wouldn't be autoxing this car again.

Finally the last thing that came to mind was the DSC "mod"! Now finally this car became a car again! It would break traction, but break neutrally, my rear end would swing out if I wanted it to, I could finally stick my lines.

I dropped a good three seconds compared to all of my runs with the DSC on.
I will without a doubt race from now on only with the DSC OFF!!!

And if I didn't do a good 720* spin on the last turn before the finish line, I would of put down one hell of a track time.

Next race in a couple of weeks and with the race stickies on there and no DSC, I should have no problem puttin down some nice numbers.

Gmac

 

[4thStroke]

You ran your few few runs with DSC on? That limits throttle while turning way too much, from my experience. The car really changes in the corners when DSC is turned off, a lot more fun. I love coming around a corner in 3rd, to the floor, RPMs shoot up, and come back down to earth as I exit the corner and tires grip again.

 

[dkswim]

what methoud did you use to turn off the dcs GMAC

 

[Gmac03]

what methoud did you use to turn off the dcs GMAC

I held the dsc button down while starting the car.

gmac

 

[Hapa88]

Hapa is not right. I HAVE AN 08 and i know for a fact this is totally different. The DSC button will not fully disable i've had it happen several times not to mention the fact that you still have ecu controlled braking under the harsher braking conditions. With the start up DSC trick everything is fully disabled, no kicking back on, no controlled braking. period end of story.


so in the immortal words of Willy Wonka, "you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir! "

So rephrase your statement to just facts. Because this thread seems to be all over the place.

People started off saying that this mod disables TCS fully. This is what MS3Jon was saying. He said it will re-engage itself automatically if you don't do this mod. Well, he was mistaken. Just hitting the DSC OFF button anytime does that (no mod needed) and I proved that by testing it and posting a bunch of videos showing it that fact.

Now it sounds like you're saying that this Mod disables TCS (which it does, I agree) and turns DSC Off completely (which I'm sure it does). But it is also my belief that hitting the DSC OFF button anytime will do the same exact thing - disable TCS and DSC completely (the DSC part I have NOT tested nor proved).

It makes ZERO sense to me to have an indicator light say "DSC OFF" in your face and yet still be active. Why would Mazda do this? This would lead to a lawsuit for false and deceiving information and false advertising. It clearly states in the manual that hitting DSC Off disables it. If a driver took this car out and the DSC actually intervened when the DSC OFF indicator was illuminated, causing an accident, that would be a lawsuit. It makes no mention of it still activating anywhere (a statement that could prevent any lawsuits for false and deceiving information).

Mazda protects those idiot drivers already by automatically engaging the system by default. They also have SRS airbags and seatbelts to protect them.

Will there still be the "idiots out there who would kill themselves and/or others by deactivating both safety systems and driving like a retard" as MS3Jon states? Yes.

Can Mazda protect all of them? No. Just like Mazda can't force them to wear their seatbelts, nor do they have the ability to limit how fast they drive or how erratically they drive.

Lastly, DSC and ABS (Antilock Braking System or ecu braking) are different systems (even though they can work together). ABS will still operate with DSC OFF. As far as I can tell there is no easy way to disable the ABS system.

 

[Hapa88]

I spent the weekend at the autox course and my first three runs were awful. I was extremely dissapointed in how this car handles. From the test drive a week earlier, to driving it as hard and legally as I could on the street I ascertained that this was a semi neutral fwd car. One thing I changed was gutting the trunk of the spare and all associated parts. So I figured I must of changed the weight of the vehicle so much that I was creating crazy understeer. Now my azenis weren't on yet, so I was on street tires, the stock potenza's, so grip was a factor. So I figured that the excessive understeer was due to the weight and the street tires. But i've raced before and even on street tires, I shouldn't have been understeering that much. I was thoroughly dissapointed and figured I wouldn't be autoxing this car again.

Finally the last thing that came to mind was the DSC "mod"! Now finally this car became a car again! It would break traction, but break neutrally, my rear end would swing out if I wanted it to, I could finally stick my lines.

I dropped a good three seconds compared to all of my runs with the DSC on.
I will without a doubt race from now on only with the DSC OFF!!!

And if I didn't do a good 720* spin on the last turn before the finish line, I would of put down one hell of a track time.

Next race in a couple of weeks and with the race stickies on there and no DSC, I should have no problem puttin down some nice numbers.

Gmac

So are you saying you drove the whole event with DSC engaged (no lights on the dash)?

Then at the end you tested this DSC mod?

Did you ever try it by just hitting DSC OFF (without doing the mod)?

 

[noneshallpass]

Hapa is not right. I HAVE AN 08 and i know for a fact this is totally different. The DSC button will not fully disable i've had it happen several times not to mention the fact that you still have ecu controlled braking under the harsher braking conditions. With the start up DSC trick everything is fully disabled, no kicking back on, no controlled braking. period end of story.


so in the immortal words of Willy Wonka, "you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir! "

 

[Gmac03]

So are you saying you drove the whole event with DSC engaged (no lights on the dash)?

Then at the end you tested this DSC mod?

Did you ever try it by just hitting DSC OFF (without doing the mod)?

My first three runs I touched nothing and my times were s*** and the car drove like s***.

The last two runs I did the "mod" and it drove "normal", my lap times dropped by a good three seconds cause I, ME, Myself, could actually drive the car. Instead of the computer doing it.

With the DSC on the car understeered all of the time, with it off it was neutral and acted like a sports car should. And if I didn't spin out on my last run, I would of had times competing with the big boys. And this was all on street tires.

When I had it on, I touched nothing. When I turned it off I did this by holding the button while I started the car. Thats all. I didn't test just hitting the button, and turnign only one light off.

I will tell you though, that by holding that button on start up disengages everything there is to disengage. Cause there is no way I could of spun out like I did with any computer involvement.

Gmac

 

[dkswim]

thats whats funny thats what we have been telling him, he refuses to listen to us and then wants to argue with us. i know what it dose how there are diffrent levels of off. i personaly dont think its worth my time to argue with someone that dosnt want to listen to what everyone else has to say. you will be able to see the diffrence of these two methouds once you start pusshing your car in the twisties. i dont have hard data all i can tell you is what my but tells me. hmmm but dyno....

 

[Hapa88]

thats whats funny thats what we have been telling him, he refuses to listen to us and then wants to argue with us. i know what it dose how there are diffrent levels of off. i personaly dont think its worth my time to argue with someone that dosnt want to listen to what everyone else has to say. you will be able to see the diffrence of these two methouds once you start pusshing your car in the twisties. i dont have hard data all i can tell you is what my but tells me. hmmm but dyno....

Did you read his response? Apparently not. Let me requote it for you:

When I had it on, I touched nothing. When I turned it off I did this by holding the button while I started the car. Thats all. I didn't test just hitting the button, and turnign only one light off.

He didn't test my method so there's no way for him to "see the difference."

 

[noneshallpass]

So rephrase your statement to just facts. Because this thread seems to be all over the place.

People started off saying that this mod disables TCS fully. This is what MS3Jon was saying. He said it will re-engage itself automatically if you don't do this mod. Well, he was mistaken. Just hitting the DSC OFF button anytime does that (no mod needed) and I proved that by testing it and posting a bunch of videos showing it that fact.

Now it sounds like you're saying that this Mod disables TCS (which it does, I agree) and turns DSC Off completely (which I'm sure it does). But it is also my belief that hitting the DSC OFF button anytime will do the same exact thing - disable TCS and DSC completely (the DSC part I have NOT tested nor proved).

It makes ZERO sense to me to have an indicator light say "DSC OFF" in your face and yet still be active. Why would Mazda do this? This would lead to a lawsuit for false and deceiving information and false advertising. It clearly states in the manual that hitting DSC Off disables it. If a driver took this car out and the DSC actually intervened when the DSC OFF indicator was illuminated, causing an accident, that would be a lawsuit. It makes no mention of it still activating anywhere (a statement that could prevent any lawsuits for false and deceiving information).

Mazda protects those idiot drivers already by automatically engaging the system by default. They also have SRS airbags and seatbelts to protect them.

Will there still be the "idiots out there who would kill themselves and/or others by deactivating both safety systems and driving like a retard" as MS3Jon states? Yes.

Can Mazda protect all of them? No. Just like Mazda can't force them to wear their seatbelts, nor do they have the ability to limit how fast they drive or how erratically they drive.

Lastly, DSC and ABS (Antilock Braking System or ecu braking) are different systems (even though they can work together). ABS will still operate with DSC OFF. As far as I can tell there is no easy way to disable the ABS system.

Dude i'm not going to argue with your dumbass. straight up. i know there are three levels of the DSC. I've seen it and done all three.but you telling me what i know to be true is wrong doesn't take away from what i've personally experienced. you sir are just an argumentative jackass. plain and simple. there are 15 people here telling you you're wrong how much more wrong do you have to be. I can tell you that my traction light has gone off multiple times with just hitting the button while driving and then stepping on the gas. therefore i know you're wrong. end of story.

 

[Hapa88]

I can tell you that my traction light has gone off multiple times with just hitting the button while driving and then stepping on the gas. therefore i know you're wrong. end of story.

I'm wrong because I'm the only one of the 15 people with solid evidence? Evidence from 3 different videos that show otherwise?

All I have to say to that is PROVE IT (this time with solid evidence, not what you say). Then it'll be the "end of story".

 

[ResilientMike]

BTW Hapa, in that post with 2 videos, the first one had the "mod" engaged. Both lights were on, unless I'm completely blind. Once I get my camera mount made for my car, I'll test all three methods at the track and see if I can sense a difference -_-

ATM, I'm with the other folks since I haven't tested anything and y'all are arguing for us

 

[Hapa88]

BTW Hapa, in that post with 2 videos, the first one had the "mod" engaged. Both lights were on, unless I'm completely blind.

I originally thought that too when I first saw it, but the other light is the low Tire Pressure Light, not the TCS light (TCS light is located on the speedometer side). So he actually did not have the "mod" enabled.

 

[Hapa88]

For the sake of comparison here's two different videos from the same person. In one he does the "mod", in the other he doesn't.

Note that the tires spin regardless of which method is used(indicating that the TCS system is disabled in both cases).

1) Vid with "mod" (DSC OFF and TCS light on constantly)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Rlua6r_40

2) Vid with just DSC OFF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHJ_XkX-Z0o

 

[mdavis]

two different videos of a possibly heavily mod'd car. If you notice he is shifting well beyond the point at which our boost drops off. before you go and say that everything on youtube is true, get all the details.

 

[mdavis]

also...

I do not think the issue here is with straight line acceleration. We all know that anytime we can hit our DSC button at a stop light and put on a lil smoke and rubber show, all while waxing about 95% of the cars on the road. Yippee!

The issue is with other stability controls besides drive wheel spin (pointed in a straight line). Turn the wheels in a MS3 and throttle control is no longer yours.

 

[Hapa88]

two different videos of a possibly heavily mod'd car. If you notice he is shifting well beyond the point at which our boost drops off. before you go and say that everything on youtube is true, get all the details.

I wouldn't say heavily modified, but ok, sure it is modified. None of the modifications he performed, however, affect the systems in question (TCS & DSC).

I encourage you to try it yourself. Record it. Post it up here (if you're unmodified). I'd do the same, but my car is modified (with an intake) and reacts in the exact same way as the videos I posted so there's no point because you won't believe it anyway.(beer)

 

[mdavis]

how do you know that he has not modified the ECU in some ways? can you prove that?

if the person in those vids knows anything about his car he/she would be shifting well before 7000rpm (way beyond the max boost range). so IMO there most be some ECU mods done as well otherwise hes is just an idiot.

 

[mdavis]

this also goes back to the straight line acceleration issue.

have you ever been to an autocross to try this in some twisties? Like I stated before. Turn the wheels in a MS3 nail the gas, and the throttle is no longer yours. unless you 'mod'