Mazda5 vs KIA Rondo comparisons and articles (merged)

[WhiteStar III]

Remember, though, that the Rondo has 2-3-2 seating compared to the 5's 2-2-2. If 6 people were in both vehicles, you can fold down half of the third row in the Rondo for cargo space whereas you can't do that in the 5.

The main reason I chose the Rondo is the 2-3-2 seating configuration and the seating for 7. If the 5 had this, I'm not sure if the Rondo would be on my radar screen. Lest everyone forgets, I have a Mazda3 Sport GT. That's my fun car. The Rondo will be my "family" car. But I still have yet to purchase it, so you never know.

That's all well & good in theory, I'm willing to bet that in real world situations cramming 3 across the middle row would be less than ideal and you'd find yourself using the full third row when seating six anyways.

.02

 

[WhiteStar III]

... I am often told about how crappy hyundais and kias are and people write them off as crap just because of the brand's past reliability woes (clear example from that guy that posted on here saying they have no crumple zones etc.). I like to clarify foolish assumptions. That being said i am in no means stating that kias are the best cars in the world, but it is frustrating when people refuse to let go of past reputations. Go drive a new Kia before you think they suck. ...

Even going by the most recent JDPowers surveys Kia are still below average and worse than thier Hyundai platform mates.

 

[perfecto]

We sure seem to have a lot of pro-Kia Rondo guys on this Mazda5 forum...

Just two, and they aren't really hurting anything. As long as they continue to be constructive, I'll leave this open.

 

[opus]

Rio Racer,
My next door neighbor is a structural engineer at a tier 1 auto supplier. Quoting him " Kia gets its crash numbers by way over weighting the frames, the result is less damage to the passenger compartment, but far greater carry through of the impact force into the passenger compartment". Translation, structural integrity achieved through rigidity versus force absorption equals same crash test rating but greater impact force absorption by the vehicles occupants ie more whiplash, more impact swelling, etc...

 

[Rio Racer]

Even going by the most recent JDPowers surveys Kia are still below average and worse than thier Hyundai platform mates.

Yes I believe their surveys look at cars about 3-5 years ago which include many cars that were not hyundai designs. The kias I am talking about are hyundai designed kias. I believe in that same study it was stated that kia was the most improved vehicle in reliabilty problems from year to year, I see a trend. That being said I'm pretty confident that the new rondo is quite reliable since it is using the 2.4 off the 4 cylinder sonata and a 2.7 off my tiburon which is also used in the old hyundai sonata which in 2005 was rated the most reliable car in america by consumer reports. Again not saying you won't have any porblems but I don't think it will die prematurely either. Plus the warranty coverage should relieve some hesitation in purchasing a kia. Isn't that study the same one that put Buick as the most reliable car company?

Opus: New kias don't weigh abnormally more than their competitors. To the best of my knowledge crash test dummies have force sensors that record such forces you speak of which would mean that would be put into consideration when giving ratings. They are identical in frame design as their hyundai counterparts which nowadays is seen as a modern capable car company by most experts in the automotive industry. This would be like getting a ford escape and a mazda tribute and saying the mazda has crumples zones and the ford doesn't because it is a ford.

By all means go buy the 5 if you are really that skeptical about reliabilty no doubt they are great MPVs, but all I'm saying is writing off the new kias without actually giving one a chance and at least test driving it is fiscally irresponsilbe

 

[AviaK]

Yes I believe their surveys look at cars about 3-5 years ago which include many cars that were not hyundai designs. The kias I am talking about are hyundai designed kias. I believe in that same study it was stated that kia was the most improved vehicle in reliabilty problems from year to year, I see a trend.

The most recent J.D. Power's 2006 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on "responses from 47,620 original owners of 2003 model-year vehicles." So this is a 3-year reliability study based on models bought in 2003.

As I said in my first post, Kia is ranked fourth from the bottom and was rock bottom in a couple of previous study years. The study notes, however, that "Kia has improved twice as much as any other brand in the past three years." The Kia Rio is also ranked in the top three for sub-compacts. Btw, Hyundai is ranked below the industry average, but only slightly below Nissan, Mazda and Porsche (all three were below average).

There is also J.D. Power's 2006 Initial Quality Study, which is based on "responses from 63,607 purchasers and lessees of new 2006 model-year cars and trucks surveyed after 90 days of ownership." I didn't mention this study earlier because it didn't seem very valuable since it is based on only 90 days of ownership. For what it's worth, you might be surprised by some of the results.

Hyundai ranks third in reliability, ahead of Toyota and Honda. Kia is below average, but would you believe that it ranks ahead of Mercedes Benz, BMW and Mazda? Hyundai models are in the top three in five vehicle categories. The Kia Rio is the highest ranked car in the sub-compact category.

At the very least, I suspect the Rio's good showing in both studies is agreeable to you, Rio Racer?

To the best of my knowledge crash test dummies have force sensors that record such forces you speak of which would mean that would be put into consideration when giving ratings.

You are right. The ratings do take into account the forces causing (as Opus puts it) "whiplash, more impact swelling, etc..." The ratings, however, do not take into account all of the force measurements. Take a look at the crash test ratings for the Rondo. The frontal crash ratings take into account "Head Injury Criterion" and "Chest Deceleration," but do not take into account "Femur Load." The side crash ratings take into account "Thoracic Trauma Index" (i.e., chest injury), but do not take into account "Head Injury Criterion" and "Pelvis Deceleration."

I knew all of those hours of watching ER would finally pay off.

You can compare these geeky numbers with the numbers recorded for other vehicles, but (as this page states) "make sure you compare vehicles from the same weight class, plus or minus 250 lbs., when looking at frontal crash star ratings."

That's all well & good in theory, I'm willing to bet that in real world situations cramming 3 across the middle row would be less than ideal and you'd find yourself using the full third row when seating six anyways.

You're right. If I had no stuff to carry and there were six people in total, people would most likely sit 2-2-2 in the Rondo. But if I did have stuff to carry (and I frequently do as I implied in my first post), I would have the option of using half of the third row for cargo space. In most instances, however, there will be a total of five people with a load of stuff to carry. In other instances, those two extra seats will come in handy when my relatives come visiting.

Anyway, I have a Mazda3, so I'm used to having three sitting in the second row.

I'm surprised that my boring and over-long posts didn't give you the hint that I had obsessively gone over every possible scenario already. (lol2)

 

[Rio Racer]

my rio is not the rio that got that award lol, but I must say at 117k the problems I had were 1 ecu reflash recall (free), 1 radiator fan tsb (free), and a crank position sensor that went out at 105k which I changed myself in 5 min and at the cost of 70 dollars (just one screw holds it in) and a valve cover gasket at 90k (20 dollar part did it myself). So yeah 90 bucks in repairs after that kind of mileage. I did all the scheduled maint. such as timing belt, tranny fluid change, plugs, brakes, but that is required on any car. I must say it's wonderful to have a 4 cylinder cause it's so easy to work on compared to the V6 tib. If you do decide to get the rondo get the 4 cylinder cause the its easier to work on for scheduled maintenance. I bet the 5 is really easy to maintain also since its an I4 motor.

 

[a10thunder]

Mazda5 in trouble against Kia Rondo

Kia's Rondo has been crushing the Mazda5 in terms of sales. The latest September sales figures show that Kia sold more than 3 times as many Rondo's as Mazda did with the 5.

I'm pretty surprised at the sales figures. People are switching to smaller, more efficient cars and both models should be capitalizing on sales. The Mazda5 has gotten great reviews and is a recommended vehicle by Consumer Reports. It looks like Mazda just isn't serious enough about pushing the Mazda5 on Americans.

Mazda5 met the 2006 sales goal of 15,000. It doesn't look like Mazda will get to 15,000 this year. Unless Mazda starts seriously marketing this car, the 5 is in deep trouble.

Sales Figures

Mazda5
August 2007: 994
September 2007: 852
Total 2007: 11,065

Kia Rondo
August 2007: 2,564
September 2007: 3,045
Total 2007: 17,827

 

[antlind]

I guess Mazda is selling enough of these outside of NA to make their NA sales not an issue....but I agree, they tend to treat the Mazda5 as their best kept secret....Very little advertising.
Anthony

 

[AIMWO4]

Very good news. Thanks.

 

[5phreak]

weird. although i will say i have nothing against the Rondo. saw one last night, and i like the look.

 

[B1GHAM]

Mazda doesnt advertise for the 5 NEARLY enough as it should. I remember over the last 6 months, the marketing on the rondo has be rediculous... I saw atleast 2 commercials for the rondo a day... vs the Mazda 5's what, none?

Personally, Ive driven both (worked for an auto group that had both mazda and kia) and I can say while the V6 has more power than the 5, its just not at all an amazing ride. Its also noisier and has that "economy" feel. I will say though that as a Kia, its a pretty good car and worlds better than what I expected.

IMHO though, comparing top model to top model, the Mazda 5 offers more versatility, better (fun) ride, and more options. It does lack in power by comparison, but if great gas mileage is what you are looking for, the rio isnt great for the 6 cyl.

overall, if mazda advertised for this vehicle, they probably would hit their goal.

 

[mazdadude]

...overall, if mazda advertised for this vehicle, they probably would hit their goal.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I am not sure why, but Mazda does not feel the need to advertise the 5.

In a way I feel that it is a type of marketing experiment for Mazda: "Let's see how many we can sell without advertising at all, just using word of mouth, and press reviews."

I will be interested in seeing if Mazda pushes the 5 after the 2008 model refresh.

Otherwise, the Mazda5 will end up like my old Protege5, an extinct species after just a couple years. But that may be a good thing for owners, because has anyone noticed how well the Protege5 held its value?

In the meantime, I will keep driving my rare Mazda, and I will keep getting asked at stoplights, gas stations, and parking lots: "Wow, that is a neat car, what kind of car is that, is that a van???"

 

[coolmazda5]

These are already some old news I'm afraid .

I gave up some time back on the idea of seeing a positive sales trend for the Mazda5. Very poor advertising for such a key market.

At least 3 years on NA (2006-2007-2008) has not been that bad. I have enjoyed mine every mile so far. As per the Rondo, I prefer to buy a cargo van, make some holes as windows and attach some 1981 Caprice car seats than buying that hideous thing

 

[barryWest]

I can use myself as a case in point for the lack of advertising / sales on Mazda's part. When shopping around for a new vehicle the last few months, we stopped into a mazda dealership since it was next to another dealership to check out the mazda 3 sport and basically just stumbled onto the mazda5. I didn't know what it was when I first saw it and initially thought it was a re-designed MPV or something. However, I had heard of the Rondo.

 

[perfecto]

I wonder if we could get a comparison of cars sold/advertisement $ comparison... because I'm sure the 5 would come out WAY ahead on that. This car has sold nearly 15000 a year ON WORD OF MOUTH ALONE.

 

[slvrsleeper]

And while I certainly don't want the 5 to disappear, I also don't want to end up getting lost in a sea of 50,000 sold per year. I really kind of like the fact that I have the only Mazda5 in Berkeley Co. WV. Besides when i see another one I know I'm seeing a kindred spirit who has taste in cars, er, vans, um MAVs, whatever. Rather than someone who bought the cheapest thing with a V6 and a really long warranty.

 

[SixStep]

I remember watching that gay ronda commercial from movie theaters.. Man, that commercial was GAY!!

 

[coolmazda5]

I wonder if we could get a comparison of cars sold/advertisement $ comparison... because I'm sure the 5 would come out WAY ahead on that. This car has sold nearly 15000 a year ON WORD OF MOUTH ALONE.

True. having that would be difficult take as it is not a Camry vs. Accord type thing (selling tons of them) so I don't see too much of time investment on doing one

Now, I just remember when I was about to pick up my car. The dealer was selling Mazda and Hyundai (not KIA, but close enough) in the same facility. No offense, but even the showroom was so different from one to another i.e. Mazda had an RX-8 Shinka Special Edition, a 4AT black Mazda5 Touring w/Navigation, a copperish Mazda6 S and a sporty Mazda3 GT Hatchback, all of them Top-Of-The-Line models.

In contrast, Hyundai had a basic Santa Fe, or something like that, and some of the very basic models (Elantra?). My impression is that they were showing how cheap a brand new car could be, nothing else.

Again, although MZ5 and Rondo are the closest competitors in NA, I think the owners-to-be seem to have similar needs but completely different expectations. That the Rondo-like ones happen to be a larger crowd, that seems to be a very good cause for the stats.

 

[jeffpurd]

I believe the whole thing was a grand experiment - partially to see if they could luck upon a gas-price driven economy/crossover market and partially to offset the retirement of the MPV for dealers - they knew the core minivan market was going the way of the dinosaur. Overall a wise bet with really zero downside and if the thing really took off it's all upside (they already could bank on OUS sales for this platform so NA sales would just be OT at the plant and pure gravy). Mass marketing is expensive and if the thing was going to strike a chord, it was going to strike a chord and sell itself like the miata did. Plus, with 3 sales so strong they are really trying to drive home a consistent Zoom-Zoom message in peoples heads of affordable performance. Even though the 5 handles well, the risk of the minivan image confusing zoom-zoom for the uninformed was too high. Watch them advertise the heck out of the next 6 - that thing will be right in their wheelhouse and looks awesome from the early pics I've seen.