Mazda Speed Protege Vs. Vw GTI 1.8 Turbo?

[jeffmsp]

[qtuoe]say it is safe but I've never seen so many blown motors/trannys anywhere other than this board with only 12psi.[/quote]

no they dont. please show me links to the posts. 1 guy blew his going full throttle in 5th gear with a flashed ECu and stock exhaust.. has nothing to do with the MSP motor being weak. The motor is fine. blkzoomzoom pulled 200+qm passes beating the living s*** out of the car the entire way down the track, you can too just know what you are doing.

 

[Jspeed17]

You are definitely not open minded about this. That's impressive work with the downpipe back exhaust, but that doesn't make the VW's performance abilities null and void. It is silly to make the statement that since your car has no problems than msps are definitely better. I know you've been on the forums and have seen plenty of blown trannys and I hope you aren't trying to tell me that they blow (and the pistons too) because people don't know how to shift.....its also silly to write VWs off just because of their frequent CELs since most VW CELs are little quirks, not big problems like blown LSDs. My point was that the engines in the V-dubs are stronger stock and you can run more psi and get more hp for less money. Your downpipe back exhaust is great work but that doesn't make my statement here false. When you are running 20psi on stock msp internals for several months (although from what I've seen I think it would only be a matter of days) then I'll be more inclined to here your point, but I know that won't happen for very long.

------OK you have a point ,i guess. Aren't you a MSP owner? And if so, you can't tell me that you don't like the MSP.

 

[srvntfhim]

------OK you have a point ,i guess. Aren't you a MSP owner? And if so, you can't tell me that you don't like the MSP.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying. I love my msp for many reasons, but there are many reasons that I get frustrated with it too. Honestly, if I had known about the LSD reputation and the weak pistons, I would have been going for a GTI instead (which I had been keeping my eye out for as well), but I got my hands on an msp that was close by for a very affordable price. I love working on my car and wish I had more money to improve the car (I'm about to go out and install a front MM and injen intake right now), but from knowing VW owners I know that many of the mods that we do to our cars to improve the crappy mazda parts (MM, exhaust hangers, shift bushings, pistons, etc) are completely unnecessary on the VWs. You can just start by doing performance modifications rather than trying to improve the not so well engineered engine. I think mazda was lazy when the built the msp. Everything is great but when they got to the engine, its like they just said, "Man, I'm tired...Lets just pull a protege engine and put a tiny turbo kit on it." They really could have made the car a great performance car to begin with. They just should have built up the motor better and given us a better LSD. Other than those two things and some of the cheap parts (I've never seen my VW buddies changing their MMs because theirs don't fall apart for example), I do love my MSP. But after driving some heavily modded VWs, I am also a very big VW/Audi fanatic and I'm open to admitting that my car is not the most amazing car on the road like I feel some people on here think.

 

[srvntfhim]

[qtuoe]say it is safe but I've never seen so many blown motors/trannys anywhere other than this board with only 12psi.

no they dont. please show me links to the posts. 1 guy blew his going full throttle in 5th gear with a flashed ECu and stock exhaust.. has nothing to do with the MSP motor being weak. The motor is fine. blkzoomzoom pulled 200+qm passes beating the living s*** out of the car the entire way down the track, you can too just know what you are doing.[/QUOTE]


If I had a lot of time, I'd go back and search and find some posts, and if you want to, go for it yourself, but I have seriously seen too many blown LSDs. You are aware of the blown LSD list on the forums aren't you? If not, I will search and pull that. That one guy you are talking about is one of many. I've seen a few guys blow their LSDs going 25mph in traffic on here. Probably due to previous hard driving. That's my biggest fear about the car. I know I'm not going to blow pistons because I'm not running any more than stock boost, but I often worry about the LSD so I baby the car a little more than I would normally care to.

 

[srvntfhim]

On the other hand, all you need to do is to change the rods in the MSP's motor and voil!

AND a quaife LSD. Even guys with stock boost have blown their LSDs over time. Quaife plus rods = at least $1600 in parts. That is $1600 I'd be able to spend on something else if I didn't have to worry about those parts. That's my point.

 

[jeffmsp]

ya know they replace it with a new LSD for free that has no problems right? lol Trust me it works mint. I gave it 1 bar and its fine. No you dont need rods. stop saying that STFU with your gay rods comments. show me 300WHPO then b**** about how you need rods, cause until then your just a person complaining for no reason.

 

[srvntfhim]

ya know they replace it with a new LSD for free that has no problems right? lol Trust me it works mint. I gave it 1 bar and its fine. No you dont need rods. stop saying that STFU with your gay rods comments. show me 300WHPO then b**** about how you need rods, cause until then your just a person complaining for no reason.

Whatever man. I know what I've read on these forums (blown engines and LSDs), sorry you missed it. I don't know who "they" are who will replace your LSD for free (not the dealership because they often won't for people even under factory warranty conditions and obviously not at all after factory warranty--like my car 50k+ miles), but you need to hook me up with them! All I know is that the arguement that since it hasn't happened to me and it hasn't happened to you therefore it doesn't happen is no arguement at all. I wish you luck with your car and hope you do not experience a blown engine or tranny like many have. I've made my point and I give up now! (ughdance) Neither car is necessarily superior in all areas, but each have their advantages. From an ability to hold a lot of boost and power with stock internals standpoint, I say that the FSDI VW and Audi engines are superior.

 

[jeffmsp]

i broke my orignal lsd at 1bar of boost. i brought the transmission into a dealer and he replaced no problem didnt even see my car. if you blow a msp motor its because you did something wrong. motors dont just break. im at 92k.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

This is a funny thread.
I was at Leabonan Valley this wednesday night getting a baseline on my Ram. I ran against a co-worker in his 02 GTi....I spanked him...in a bone stock Quad Cab, 4wd, fully loaded (Leather Power seats, heated seats, 20's, Towing package w/ class 4 hitch, etc.) Tipped the scales at 5500lbs. It ran a 15.88 @ 86.2 mph. I got him bad on the light but he couldn't even pull up on me, not even a hint of catching up. I threw a K&N cold air intake on and it slowed down a tenth.
His Gti is tricked to run alittle bit more boost than stock also.
I am a Vw and Mazda Tech., and I wouldn't even think about a Gti as fast car.

Oh and Jspeed17, I have a set of 225/50/15 Bfg drag radials mounted on rims ready to go with 1 wednesday night on them. Let me know if you want to take them off my hands, or borrow them. I watched one of your runs, way too much shiny stuff for such slow times....lol

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

You are definitely not open minded about this. That's impressive work with the downpipe back exhaust, but that doesn't make the VW's performance abilities null and void. It is silly to make the statement that since your car has no problems than msps are definitely better. I know you've been on the forums and have seen plenty of blown trannys and I hope you aren't trying to tell me that they blow (and the pistons too) because people don't know how to shift.....its also silly to write VWs off just because of their frequent CELs since most VW CELs are little quirks, not big problems like blown LSDs. My point was that the engines in the V-dubs are stronger stock and you can run more psi and get more hp for less money. Your downpipe back exhaust is great work but that doesn't make my statement here false. When you are running 20psi on stock msp internals for several months (although from what I've seen I think it would only be a matter of days) then I'll be more inclined to here your point, but I know that won't happen for very long.

Joep ran 18-21psi on his Msp with an exhaust only for at least a few weeks. He dyno'd at 263whp...

 

[Earful]

I have been wantin to run a guy at work that has one (GTi). When this happens...I'll post here. I do know they are a b**** to work on.....

 

[jeffmsp]

Joep ran 18-21psi on his Msp with an exhaust only for at least a few weeks. He dyno'd at 263whp...

I wonder what his compression was like after lol. we will have to assume this is with race gas, unflashed ECU and without his fuel pressure reducer. Still, great numbers regardless of how he got there. one more good msp outcome.

 

[Jspeed17]

This is a funny thread.
I was at Leabonan Valley this wednesday night getting a baseline on my Ram. I ran against a co-worker in his 02 GTi....I spanked him...in a bone stock Quad Cab, 4wd, fully loaded (Leather Power seats, heated seats, 20's, Towing package w/ class 4 hitch, etc.) Tipped the scales at 5500lbs. It ran a 15.88 @ 86.2 mph. I got him bad on the light but he couldn't even pull up on me, not even a hint of catching up. I threw a K&N cold air intake on and it slowed down a tenth.
His Gti is tricked to run alittle bit more boost than stock also.
I am a Vw and Mazda Tech., and I wouldn't even think about a Gti as fast car.

Oh and Jspeed17, I have a set of 225/50/15 Bfg drag radials mounted on rims ready to go with 1 wednesday night on them. Let me know if you want to take them off my hands, or borrow them. I watched one of your runs, way too much shiny stuff for such slow times....lol

---THanks dude!!! I know, i was spinning all the way thru 2nd gear!!! If i could just clean up my 60ft time i would be good for mid-low 13's. That sounds cool. I'd love to try em, if not buy them!! Looks like rain for this wed,
but are you up there on saturday???

 

[MSP608]

didnt read the whole thread but just so happens i raced a gti today...we were dead even it was awesome running him. he had intake, catback, and a chip but hasnt messed with the boost. i have intake, exhaust, intercooler running at 7 psi. fast car so dont underestimate it.

 

[jeffmsp]

if any of you have ever read "how to tune and modify engine management systems" they have a 305WHP blown golf gti. basically has everything. amazing car, but even with the best tuners working on the car it still doesnt show me how it could be better than a MSP when people are putting down close to the same power on stock msp motors and still outhanlding them for waaay less money.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

I wonder what his compression was like after lol. we will have to assume this is with race gas, unflashed ECU and without his fuel pressure reducer. Still, great numbers regardless of how he got there. one more good msp outcome.

Race gas, there wasn't a flash, and yes the fuel pressure reducer. He sold the car and another member got it and ran it without incident. She sold it and as far as I know it is still running strong.

 

[srvntfhim]

if any of you have ever read "how to tune and modify engine management systems" they have a 305WHP blown golf gti. basically has everything. amazing car, but even with the best tuners working on the car it still doesnt show me how it could be better than a MSP when people are putting down close to the same power on stock msp motors and still outhanlding them for waaay less money.

I'm surprised to hear that. I've never heard of a blown engine on a VW with only 305whp. Other issues, yes and more hp blowing engines, yes, but not at 305whp. Must be a fluke. Some of the VWs end up being lemons, but if you do get a good one, it'll run hard and well. If you ever get time, you should search the vwvortex forums and read around to see what those guys are doing to their cars. They're pretty sweet.

 

[8cd03gro]

of course hes gonna pull hes running 20 psi and ur only running 12 boost it up to 20 like him and show him whos boss or better yet whos his daddy!!! yeah

how long do you really think you could run 20 psi on the stock bottom end?

 

[srvntfhim]

how long do you really think you could run 20 psi on the stock bottom end?

Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to that....not very long...(poke)

 

[JOMO]

Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to that....not very long...(poke)

A day, if that.