Making the perfect STX Mazdaspeed... think tank starts here.

[DistantTea]

I have a couple handling theories that I'm putting into practice this sunday up at OVR. If I could get -2.2 degrees out of the front suspension that would be great... but I had Bill Braucksick do my alignment and he tried every trick in the Stock Class book and couldn't go past -1.1 without using crash bolts, slotting the tower or bending something. I'm no cheater... but thats why I've been asking mazda usa to include the use of crash bolts in their protege repair manual for 2004

Scap, thats some crazy tire pressure you are running... we must have drasticly different driving styles!

 

[Logan]

Here are the stock MSP spring rates, does anyone know how to convert these to pounds??

"I'm not positive on the spring rates in pounds, but I'm showing 27.7 N/mm
for front and 20.6 N/mm for rear."

Got that from Mazda Motorsports.

 

[Logan]

EDIT:
Corrected, I think I got it now.
27.7 N/mm = 158.1711 lb/in
20.6 N/mm = 117.6290 lb/in

The eibach springs in the mazamotorsports coilover kit are 275lb/10" front and 325lb/10" rear.

Ours really ARE soft compared to the race kit. Wow.

 

[Micaspeed!]

Yea, I did use a camber bolt kit. This one is made by K-Mac from Australia. Probably the best of these type things. My intention was not to do something illegal for DS, but to get a feel for the potential available for STX and local club drivers schools on the road courses. STX mods will suit my needs for both events.

The whole car as stock is set up to understeer. A big front bar, less track in front, heavier spring rates in the front, etc spell understeer. By doing the bolt mod, it allowed me to actually feel the direction of mods to come.

As far as struts go, AWR sells some Bilstein insert set ups and also sells some blank race duty struts to allow insesrtion of a Koni wet kit which will provide rebound and compression adjustment sseperate. Stock donor struts will also work to fab some race struts. We will need the smaller dia. race springs to allow the strut to pivot more inward for even more neg. camber. Ground control sells a upper camber plate for the front, but there are some issues with their design. AWR sells front and rear plates.

From what I see, the front bar will have to be smaller than stock MSP. A big adjustable rear will be needed. Spring rates will have to be about 30-40 percent greater in the rear. Keep rear camber to a min in relation to the front.

When lowering these cars, bumpster becomes an issue. AWR sells a kit to deal with this.

Tires I think will be 225/45/17 on 7.5" wide rims.

Brakes on the challenge cars are total stock rear rotors and calipers, with big front disks and four pot aluminum calipers.

These are just my thoughts to date, and I encourage others to share. I really have not yet thought of engine mods.

Two of the Speed Challenge team guys are from my area of teh world, so I can gather more info.

Godspeed!
Dave

 

[BlueMP5Dave]

I shed almost 160lbs with my JIC's according to a truck scale. My JIC's also have camber, caster adjusts built in. They are crazy stiff and fully adjustable with 15 way adjustable fully revalvable inserts. Also come with pillow balls on upper mount.

 

[Micaspeed!]

Thanks for the reply on the JIC set up. I was not familiar with it . Do you have any pics of the upper strut mount? What car did you install on? Thanks

Godspeed!
Dave

 

[scapamouche]

Not to be TOO much of a smartass, but I'd say those Coilovers are on his 2001 ES...

 

[BlueMP5Dave]

I am not at home so I will post you a picture later. If you want a rigid setup this is it. I personally need a stiffer front bar to complete my package, front end is still loose. But I can handle any corner you throw at me now. I didn't notice but if any of you guys are in this area you are more than welcome to drive my car. I am also a representaive for Auto RND. I can get good pricing on this setup for anyone interested.

 

[ARunto]

What's the difference between STX and STS classes?

 

[KBicknel]

What's the difference between STX and STS classes?

This is the info on moutons.org but it gives a good idea about the differences.

All allowances in STS carry over, including street tires, emissions, etc.

All restrictions regarding body type carry over.

Engine size allowance: up to 5.1, normally aspirated and 2.0, forced induction (single turbo or supercharger).

Rim restriction: maximum width of 8", diameter/offset unrestricted. Tire restriction: max width 245 mm .

Only factory limited slip differentials (LSD) are allowed on AWD vehicles, as defined in Section 12.4. For AWD vehicles that did not come with any type of limited slip differential (including center differential or transfer case), a single aftermarket LSD may be added. 2WD vehicles may use any LSD unit.

High flow catalytic converters are allowed, but must attach within six inches of the original unit. Multiple catalytic converters may be replaced by a single unit, provided the single unit is within six inches of the original primary unit. The resultant configuration must meet Federal emissions standards at normal vehicle operating temperature.

Alternate motor mounts and/or engine locators (bobble struts) sold by the vehicle's manufacturer or their Motorsports subsidiary or affiliate ( Chrysler/Mopar, Toyota/TRD , Honda/Mugen, etc.) are allowed.

Alternate driver and front passenger seats are allowed, but they cannot be constructed of a solid outer shell and must have a suspended bottom cushion and be fully upholstered.

Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the original attachment points.

Additionally excluded cars: BMW M3 (E36 and E46), BMW M5 (all), Mitsubishi Evo 8, Subaru Sti.

 

[ARunto]

Are these street tire only classes?

 

[KBicknel]

Are these street tire only classes?

STS ans STX are both street tire classes. You are just allowed more freedom with sizes in STX.

 

[Logan]

Very strange.
Do the SCCA rules allow R tires if you take 1 prep point?
The Canadian National rules are that way, where Ontario rules allow ANY tire, as long as it's not a slick.

 

[rowan]

SCCA rules = R's are free mod in every class
Except for the recently created "ST*" classes which are restricted to street tires. ( >= 140 treadwear? )

The whole point of the ST* classes was to get more regular car enthusiasts into it by allowing bolt on mods and regular tires.

 

[scapamouche]

The SCCA rules do not use points at all...

If you have ANY mod that is not legal for a given class, you are bumped, and you can have ALL of the mods legal for a given class and be OK...

 

[Logan]

Given the condition of the canadian dollar right now, I'm shopping for next years parts early.
Here is what I think my options are:
JIC full coilover kit (1900USD)
MazdaMotorsports kit (eibach ers springs 275lb front, 325lb rear, bilstein struts, 1300 USD)
Tein SS coilover kit (current group buy price, 1100USD, soft springs though, not much stiffer than stock msp springs, so I dont think this one is worth it).
The mazda kit interests me because the bilsteins are valved for the protege. I'm going to see if I can find out if they are valved for a stripped race protege or a street weighted car. One issue I have with this kit is that I think the parts will rust as they are exposed to the elements. I'm going to try and reach Tony @ AWR and see what he thinks about that. If I can get answers that are suitable for me I think this is the direction I will go. Mix this with the 21.5mm AWR bar I have and some stiffer motor mounts and I think this car might be all set. DSS here I come!

 

[CRDMS1]

I'm fascinated by the MazdaMotorsports kit as well, although the budget won't allow it right now. Let us know what you find out from AWR.

I'm also curious why you mention the motor mounts. For handling or throttle response?

Peace...(hippy)

 

[Logan]

I want stiffer mounts for increased throttle response and reduced wheel hop.
But I do drive this car daily, and think the AWR mounts are too harsh from what I hear.

 

[BlueMP5Dave]

You can do better than 1900USD for JIC coilover kit. PM ARD MP5 if you are serious he might be able to get you a deal for around 1600-1700.

 

[rowan]

Or .. just get stiffer struts and/or springs for the rear of the car only and see what that does for you.