Lowering springs or coilovers?
- Thread starter ourlee
- Start date
This is a really contradictory subject, on Mazda's Facebook page their was a poll about modified cars, they where showing pics and asking if the cars where too low.(asking ppl to vote)
How can you promote car customization yet try not to honor warranty when ppl try to make their cars look like the ones you showed them?
Makes no sense to me!
How can you promote car customization yet try not to honor warranty when ppl try to make their cars look like the ones you showed them?
Makes no sense to me!
SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
- :
- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
The new safety car of Laguna Seca Raceway. The previous one was a fully built CX-7 with Ohlins suspension, Brembo 6pot brakes etc. Hope this provides some inspiration.
Saw that car in person at the NYAS. It wasn't riding on Ohlin springs (or at least not in the color and labeling of Ohlins), and had factory brake calipers painted red. The only things there were apparent were CX-9 20" inches painted gun metal.
thatwazmysn
Member
If we have the 6mt sport cx-5 and we want to get 19 inch wheels on it without doing anything to the suspension height, will it look like a grand touring cx-5 with 19 inch wheels? I just want to know if the suspension height of the 6mt sport model is the same as the grand touring model.
Also, does the sport model and grand touring model get the same size spare tire?
Also, does the sport model and grand touring model get the same size spare tire?
Suspension is the same for sport, touring and GT. The only thing that may change is the spring rate between FWD and AWD because of the weight difference. But yes, you can just take off your 17's and bolt on 19's and you wouldn't be able to tell a sport from a GT.
I'm not 100%, but I'm willing to bet that the spare tires in all of them are the same. The overall diameter of the 225/55R19 and 225/65R17 is almost identical, so the spare should work with either setup. From a production stand point, it would be stupid for mazda to use 2 different spare tires.
flatlander937
Member
- :
- '11 Mazda2 Sport
In most cases, when you lower a car, you change the relationship of the roll center height vs the center of gravity height. Depending on how low you go, as they get further apart(roll center gets lower and lower than the CG), you can really screw up the handling. High center of gravity + low roll center = a lower "pivot" point at which the suspension acts. You need to either add stiffer sway bars(which reduce grip and hurt handling more when not necessary) OR you need to run even stiffer spring rates than already necessary(stiffer first because of being lower and losing up-travel in suspension, and even stiffer again so the body doesn't roll like a lazy dog).
That said... generally 1-2" has a minimal effect and most of the aftermarket will have it figured out after a short while. When it comes to handling... camber curves, bump steer angles, roll axis inclination, and the roll centers have a MUCH bigger effect on how well a car handles than whether it is 0 to 2 inches lower. Generally stiffer springs and only a VERY mild drop with dampers that are matched to your setup will be much much better than bad drop coils and stock shocks.
I've been doing some mild reading on the subject with my Mazda 3 and trying to gather all the info needed to choose a set of coilovers the SMART way and with different spring rates to get a target 2.0 and 2.1hz suspension frequency to have a manageable daily driver/frequent autocrosser.
Here are some good links if you want to learn:
http://teamzx2.com/threads/10674-suspension-geometry-types-setups-(long-read-but-good!)
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets5.html
That said... generally 1-2" has a minimal effect and most of the aftermarket will have it figured out after a short while. When it comes to handling... camber curves, bump steer angles, roll axis inclination, and the roll centers have a MUCH bigger effect on how well a car handles than whether it is 0 to 2 inches lower. Generally stiffer springs and only a VERY mild drop with dampers that are matched to your setup will be much much better than bad drop coils and stock shocks.
I've been doing some mild reading on the subject with my Mazda 3 and trying to gather all the info needed to choose a set of coilovers the SMART way and with different spring rates to get a target 2.0 and 2.1hz suspension frequency to have a manageable daily driver/frequent autocrosser.
Here are some good links if you want to learn:
http://teamzx2.com/threads/10674-suspension-geometry-types-setups-(long-read-but-good!)
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets5.html
I think this is the look you are going for. An inch lower really improves the look and handling without sacrificing functionality.
That does look pretty sweat but every vehicle that I have tried to change the suspension geometry on by lowering it has compromised the refined factory feel too much.
I find that often to be the case. The exception will sometimes be moderate lowering springs offered by the automaker (even if they are actually custom OEM springs), Lexus F-sport is an example.
The CX-5 has very carefully calibrated suspension to get a very good ride/handling combo even with 19's, hate to mess it up.
SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
- :
- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
There are a select few who I (as an engineer) would trust to build me a proper set of springs, Swift (quite possibly the BEST maker), H&R, Autoexe, and Progress Technology to name a few. These companies tend to provide consistent spring rates for all the springs they built. Though most if not all progressive springs are higher spring rates than factory, they don't exactly translate to a harsher ride. Stiffer struts is the usual cause to a stiffer ride.
There is room for improvement over the factory CX-5 set up without sacrificing ride quality. AutoExe just released news on development of their new springs that allow a 25-40mm drop (obviously depending on the package of the CX-5). I still need to research on their springs rates in comparison to stock VS H&R VS AutoExe. I take that no one here knows the stock spring rates of the CX-5 (correct me if I'm wrong). I suppose I'll PM Corksport about that (whistle) ...
Hell, one can have Swift custom build a set of springs (be it linear or progressive rate springs) for a few hundred bucks. But rest assured, since they are renown for their springs. They have quite a racing history with their products, which includes 24 Hrs of Le Man, 24 Nurburgring, JGTC, etc.
There is room for improvement over the factory CX-5 set up without sacrificing ride quality. AutoExe just released news on development of their new springs that allow a 25-40mm drop (obviously depending on the package of the CX-5). I still need to research on their springs rates in comparison to stock VS H&R VS AutoExe. I take that no one here knows the stock spring rates of the CX-5 (correct me if I'm wrong). I suppose I'll PM Corksport about that (whistle) ...
Hell, one can have Swift custom build a set of springs (be it linear or progressive rate springs) for a few hundred bucks. But rest assured, since they are renown for their springs. They have quite a racing history with their products, which includes 24 Hrs of Le Man, 24 Nurburgring, JGTC, etc.
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apexanimal
Member
- :
- 2013 CX5 Sport, 6mt
^please report back if you find out the stock spring rates... i would buy a set of swifts in a heartbeat...
SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
- :
- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
I have a friend with an RX-8 that has a set of Tein H-Tech springs with 179 lbs/in 129 lbs/in F/R spring rates. Lowering the front 1.4" and rear 0.7" . An increase of ~14% in the front and rear. Of course, sitting on factory Tokico high pressure monotube shocks. He reports (along with many countless others on rx8club) that it has resulted in a better ride along with flatter and tighter cornering. It is due to a lower constant frequency/oscillation per second over small imperfection in the road, and at times it may be muted even more so.
I can attest also with my Progress Technology springs on my RX-8 on factory Tokicos. Lowered 1.2" front and 0.8" rear, with 205 lbs/in front and 145 lbs/in rear. That is a 31% for the front and 28% increase for the rear. CNC'd cold wound, stress-relieved, and shot peened process similar to the Tein's. Keep in mind that both are progressive rate springs, not linear. I not only notice an increase in ride comfort and more responsive/flatter cornering, but elimination of the soft stock rear wiggle when pushed into a corner trail braking and more precise yaw corrections with the throttle.
The RX-8's suspension is a double wishbone front and multilink rear with bump steer virtually eliminated. From factory, it is BY FAR the most intricate and well engineered suspension Mazda has designed to date on any of their production cars. It is still rated as one of the best in the sports car market, even up to cars worth six figures. Yes, more so than the cheapo (in comparison) McPherson front and simpler multilink rear of the CX-5; so the "perfect balance engineered suspension" argument is not valid here. Speaking from my engineering stand point- if you have the money and knowledge, there is always something to re-engineer and improve on, especially if it's a mass produced machinery.
I can attest also with my Progress Technology springs on my RX-8 on factory Tokicos. Lowered 1.2" front and 0.8" rear, with 205 lbs/in front and 145 lbs/in rear. That is a 31% for the front and 28% increase for the rear. CNC'd cold wound, stress-relieved, and shot peened process similar to the Tein's. Keep in mind that both are progressive rate springs, not linear. I not only notice an increase in ride comfort and more responsive/flatter cornering, but elimination of the soft stock rear wiggle when pushed into a corner trail braking and more precise yaw corrections with the throttle.
The RX-8's suspension is a double wishbone front and multilink rear with bump steer virtually eliminated. From factory, it is BY FAR the most intricate and well engineered suspension Mazda has designed to date on any of their production cars. It is still rated as one of the best in the sports car market, even up to cars worth six figures. Yes, more so than the cheapo (in comparison) McPherson front and simpler multilink rear of the CX-5; so the "perfect balance engineered suspension" argument is not valid here. Speaking from my engineering stand point- if you have the money and knowledge, there is always something to re-engineer and improve on, especially if it's a mass produced machinery.
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SayNoToPistons
Wheels, not rims...
- :
- CX-5 GT AWD w/ Tech, RX-8 GT 6spd w/ 'goodies'
Suspension engineering isn't magic. The same concept carries over. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about (smoke)
