Lotta road noise

[hp79]

I got a roll of Peel & Seal from Lowes for $17 or so, and opened up all four doors, removed the speakers, heated the pieces and placed them at maybe 50% coverage where it sounded hollow. I noticed less hollow tin sound on the panels when tapping now, but don't really notice the improvement while driving. Maybe it did help a little, but it's hard to tell with incremental improvements. After doing all this, I found other people doing 100% coverage in 2-3 layers with Peel & Seal, and not the 25% coverage like the expensive stuff. I only used maybe half roll of the Peel & Seal so I probably need to go in again to add the whole thing.

Oh, if anyone ever want to try opening up their door panels, buy the clips before you start. I had a really hard time figuring out that the weather strip actually goes on to the door's metal pannel before re-attaching the door trim. I broke at least 10 of those while getting the 4 door's trim off. Dealers sell them at $1.70 each (I bought 10 from a dealer), but later on I found out that you can order 25pack for $15. Ebay item: 170882156514, or part number GJ6A-68-AB1.

Maybe I'll put more time again in Summer, and also spend the money to get mass loaded vinyl and more Peel & Seal and do the floors too. The meta panel under the rear D-pillar sounds very hollow right now, but I didn't have the confidence to remove the "Trunk side trim" to get there. The trunk floor looks like I don't have to add any Peel & Seal because there's already some factory stuff on there, and the spare tire and the cargo mat looks like it'll cover everything up pretty good, but I might be wrong.

 

[V8toilet]

I got a roll of Peel & Seal from Lowes for $17 or so, and opened up all four doors, removed the speakers, heated the pieces and placed them at maybe 50% coverage where it sounded hollow. I noticed less hollow tin sound on the panels when tapping now, but don't really notice the improvement while driving. Maybe it did help a little, but it's hard to tell with incremental improvements. After doing all this, I found other people doing 100% coverage in 2-3 layers with Peel & Seal, and not the 25% coverage like the expensive stuff. I only used maybe half roll of the Peel & Seal so I probably need to go in again to add the whole thing.

Oh, if anyone ever want to try opening up their door panels, buy the clips before you start. I had a really hard time figuring out that the weather strip actually goes on to the door's metal pannel before re-attaching the door trim. I broke at least 10 of those while getting the 4 door's trim off. Dealers sell them at $1.70 each (I bought 10 from a dealer), but later on I found out that you can order 25pack for $15. Ebay item: 170882156514, or part number GJ6A-68-AB1.

Maybe I'll put more time again in Summer, and also spend the money to get mass loaded vinyl and more Peel & Seal and do the floors too. The meta panel under the rear D-pillar sounds very hollow right now, but I didn't have the confidence to remove the "Trunk side trim" to get there. The trunk floor looks like I don't have to add any Peel & Seal because there's already some factory stuff on there, and the spare tire and the cargo mat looks like it'll cover everything up pretty good, but I might be wrong.

Peel and seal is a bituminous roofing product that wasn't designed to be used as a sound deadener. Products like Dynomat and Second Skin Damplifer are designed to deaden the vibrations in the panels by using a viscoelastic butyl rubber and a heavy aluminum constraining layer to turn vibrations into heat energy.

I tested this theory by acquiring samples from different companies like asphalt based products such as GT Mat and comparing them to premium products like Damplifier and Damplifier Pro on metal clips. There is a huge difference in their effectiveness. Damplifer was clearly the best one for the money. I found that using about 40% coverage of the good stuff is all you need. That Peel and Seal is likely to end up melting and falling to the bottom of your door after a few hot summer heat waves and direct sun light for a few days. Also you can buy a very inexpensive but effective door removal tool kit from Harbor Freight Tools that will allow you to remove those white door panel clips pretty easily without breaking them.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

I got a roll of Peel & Seal from Lowes for $17 or so, and opened up all four doors, removed the speakers, heated the pieces and placed them at maybe 50% coverage where it sounded hollow. I noticed less hollow tin sound on the panels when tapping now, but don't really notice the improvement while driving. Maybe it did help a little, but it's hard to tell with incremental improvements. After doing all this, I found other people doing 100% coverage in 2-3 layers with Peel & Seal, and not the 25% coverage like the expensive stuff. I only used maybe half roll of the Peel & Seal so I probably need to go in again to add the whole thing.

Oh, if anyone ever want to try opening up their door panels, buy the clips before you start. I had a really hard time figuring out that the weather strip actually goes on to the door's metal pannel before re-attaching the door trim. I broke at least 10 of those while getting the 4 door's trim off. Dealers sell them at $1.70 each (I bought 10 from a dealer), but later on I found out that you can order 25pack for $15. Ebay item: 170882156514, or part number GJ6A-68-AB1.

Maybe I'll put more time again in Summer, and also spend the money to get mass loaded vinyl and more Peel & Seal and do the floors too. The meta panel under the rear D-pillar sounds very hollow right now, but I didn't have the confidence to remove the "Trunk side trim" to get there. The trunk floor looks like I don't have to add any Peel & Seal because there's already some factory stuff on there, and the spare tire and the cargo mat looks like it'll cover everything up pretty good, but I might be wrong.

Thanks. I am going to remove my door panels soon to remedy some rattling and I always break a few of those plastic rivets. My parts dept knows my info by heart now lol. Also, while I was installing my trailer harness (during which I lost a taillight bolt in the frame) I noticed the metal below the spare tire is very thin and transfers vibrations to the heat shield under the car very well. I had previously partially remedied this by putting carpeting down, but recently discovered the cause. This was more of an issue for me because I have a small subwoofer, but just in case.

 

[ErgoZoom]

I work in acoustics. If you want to reduce sound, you need to create a "msm" (mass/space/mass) system that is completely sealed (only a 2-leaf system; never a 3-leaf system which defeats the air gap--physics.) In essence, line the the outside layer of metal with heavy mass, allow the air gap, and mass the other layer (inner plastic trim, etc). Of course there are trade offs as you are increasing the mass of the vehicle. Obviously a denser mass material is preferred (mass loaded vinyl (MLV) at 2lbs/sq ft is pretty common -- about a 1/4" thick.) However, you must remember that the weakest layer will defeat all this work and, in this case, usually refers to windows/glass panes/and door seals. Laminating windows with heavy materials helps.

 

[hp79]

Peel and seal is a bituminous roofing product that wasn't designed to be used as a sound deadener. Products like Dynomat and Second Skin Damplifer are designed to deaden the vibrations in the panels by using a viscoelastic butyl rubber and a heavy aluminum constraining layer to turn vibrations into heat energy.

I tested this theory by acquiring samples from different companies like asphalt based products such as GT Mat and comparing them to premium products like Damplifier and Damplifier Pro on metal clips. There is a huge difference in their effectiveness. Damplifer was clearly the best one for the money. I found that using about 40% coverage of the good stuff is all you need. That Peel and Seal is likely to end up melting and falling to the bottom of your door after a few hot summer heat waves and direct sun light for a few days. Also you can buy a very inexpensive but effective door removal tool kit from Harbor Freight Tools that will allow you to remove those white door panel clips pretty easily without breaking them.

Did you have a chance to test Peel & Seal with 100% coverage (or even 60%) vs proper sound deadening material at 40% coverage?

I did search a lot about people using Peal & Seal, and it looks like it won't melt off the door panels if properly placed. I read people even putting that on the ceiling and okay for years. I won't be doing that, but I think a lot has to do with how it's installed (cleaning and using a heat gun).
Before I went with Peel & Seal, I tried a piece (about 3 sq ft) of unknown brand sound deadening material (sold at Schucks Auto) which had Butyl sticky and they just fell off by itself after a week when I opened it up again to install Peel & Seal. I don't think the car would ever get enough heat for that to melt down, but I'll have to see. I will be adding more layers of this stuff onto my door for sure to build up the mass since I still have like half roll left. When I do the floors I'll try to get the proper stuff though because if I layer it too much, it's going to cost the same as getting the real stuff.

I had to use pliers to pull out the ones that were left in the door panel. I just received my 25 extra clips that I ordered but would be great if I can prevent breaking them. I found that after popping out the trim a little, if you wiggle the trim panel off the door, there are clips left on the door and this causes less damage to the trim.

Edit: Here's the tool I bought today with a 20% off coupon. I should have bought this before I started. Thanks V8toilet. I was able to use two pieces on one clip and easily snap them out without breaking anything.
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-auto-trim-and-molding-tool-set-67021.html#.Uxjlf_ldVKA
I opened my front left door and added more layers of Peel & Seal through the speaker hole while testing out the tool. I feel like an expert now.

Also, I decided to buy MLV from here, it's much cheaper. I'll buy maybe 10 ft length for 4 doors and some extra for the trunk.
http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/Mass-Loaded-Vinyl-45W-per-foot/productinfo/09-00005-54/

And here, there's a person (OP of that thread) using Peel & Seal, didn't have any problems after 3 years.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/app...0432-peel-seal-dynamat-cheap-diy-guide-2.html

 

[V8toilet]

You may be interested in reading this article about the differences between the different products used for reducing NVH in an automobile http://sounddeadenershowdown.com.

I do not have hands on experience with Peel and Seal. I do have experience with asphalt based products like GT Mat and you have to use a lot more of the asphalt based product to get close to a quality CLD with true butyl based rubber and a real aluminum constraining layer. GT Mat also makes a product they sell as 100% butyl and I tested it against regular Damplifer (not the pro), which is half the thickness and the regular Damplifer was noticeably more effective. For me it was worth the higher price paid because I was able to do the inner and outer skins of all five doors and the rear foot wells, under the rear seats, and back to the spare wheel well and sides. I did all that with just 14 lbs of material for a 3 db reduction in interior road noise.

If you would like to mail me a sample of that Peel and Seal I'd be happy to do a video comparison test of it compared to the other products. I'd also like to know how you make out with that MLV as I have never seen it so cheap before. In the end I also couldn't get passed the smell of the asphalt based product either.

 

[hp79]

Hi V8toilet, that site was one of the first site I visited while searching for sound deadening. Yeah, lots of good info there.

Last time when I applied some more Peel & Seal through the speaker hole on one door, I mostly layered it on lower part of the outside metal as far as I can reach. While doing that, I also added some on the inside over the black plastic panel which is bolted onto the door with 9 or 10 bolts. This black plastic panel felt really hollow so I cut many pieces of Peel & Seal and added one layer. I think this actually helped more reducing the noise through the door, so I was planning to do the rest in similar way when I find time.

Two days ago I found an awesome thread where this guy actually tests different CLD tiles in a controlled manner, and I had to read the whole 25 pages! Their conclusion Peel & Seal found on post #250 shows it actually works for dampening high frequency, but does almost nothing for the lower hz. I think this is what I am experiencing. BTW, their recommendation is to use SoundDeadenerShowdow(SDS) tiles. I was also considering GT Mat before this because it's so cheap, but after seeing the test result, I am not going to do GT Mat.

My thought has now changed and decided to go with the real dampening stuff. However, for the thin and light black plastic panels, I think Peel & Seal works well so I won't be wasting the more expensive dampeners on that. I guess it's a good thing that I didn't layer all the panels with Peel & Seal yet. Once I finish the CLD tiles, I will think about adding MLV layer. The hesitation of applying MLV layer is that our CX-5 doors inside are not flat so it'll require cutting and gluing the MLV to form, and that would be a lot of work.


edit on 3/13: additional stuff I'd like to mention.
I use an Android app called "Sound Meter Lite" on my Note 3, and it currently records 78db on 60 MPH smooth highway (was 80db before Peel & Seal), 55db stopped in traffic light, 30db engine off with garage door closed. The sensitivity are probably biased towards human voice because that's what the phone mic is for.

Also, I got a shipping quote reply from Don at SDS (very helpful!), he said our Mazda's have no space for MLV between the inner panel and the trim, but it would greatly help reducing the noise if I can install it between the inner panel and the outer panel. I'll probably have to skip on the MLV, and just install the CLD tiles.

Here's his detailed email reply just in case anyone is wondering.

CLD Tiles are recommended for Mazda doors. The issue is with the barrier
layers - CCF and MLV - and fitting them between the door trim panel and
the sealed plastic inner door skin to which the trim panel is mounted.
It isn't that the cars wouldn't benefit from an added barrier layer
between the trim panel and inner door skin, it's that there isn't room.
Significant benefit can be had from hanging CCF and MLV on the outer
door skin.

12 CLD Tiles @ 2.45 = $29.40
2 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 14.95 = 29.90
1 Velcro Strips, adh. 2 sides, 2-pack @ 3.25 = 3.25
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement @ 9.50 = 9.50

Sub Total: $72.05
Shipping: 20.60
Total: $92.65

I have still not decided which CLD tiles I'm going to get because even though the SDS tiles are the best, each tiles being small, it's kind of expensive.

 

[V8toilet]

Interesting! I'll read that super long thread when I have a chance, maybe the weekend. It would be interesting to see if they tested second skin.

Thanks for the link. I'll see if I can get a picture of my door with the Second Skin applied posted here. I tried to upload to this forum with my IPad but you can't drag and drop with an IPad so I'll have to try my laptop this weekend.

 

[BoneKrusher]

I work in acoustics. If you want to reduce sound, you need to create a "msm" (mass/space/mass) system that is completely sealed (only a 2-leaf system; never a 3-leaf system which defeats the air gap--physics.) In essence, line the the outside layer of metal with heavy mass, allow the air gap, and mass the other layer (inner plastic trim, etc). Of course there are trade offs as you are increasing the mass of the vehicle. Obviously a denser mass material is preferred (mass loaded vinyl (MLV) at 2lbs/sq ft is pretty common -- about a 1/4" thick.) However, you must remember that the weakest layer will defeat all this work and, in this case, usually refers to windows/glass panes/and door seals. Laminating windows with heavy materials helps.

What about applying some inexpensive, fire retardant spray foam in between muffler shrouds and body/undercarriage panels?

 

[RedBaron]

Interesting to hear from/about Don again, from SoundDeadenerShowdown. A group of us worked a group buy with him a few years ago for my other car, and held a mod meet where he came to help out and we all applied the stuff. Even though our cars are convertibles, it made a big difference in road noise - to the point that my wife even noticed after the fact!

Yes, his CLD tiles are expensive, but they are much higher in quality compared to most of the rest. For example, the aluminum backing is very thick - at least 2-3 times that of a soda can.

Just chiming in as a satisfied customer

 

[mclark999]

Most folks I know that have done this on other cars have found it doesn't help much. One thing I've found to work is lining the rear tire well and area under the Rear floor with Second skin Damplifier (like Dynamat but cheaper). I've done this on several cars (corvette, Mustang, Audi TT) and it has helped noticeably..

I'm going to do this. I've already put this inside the rear hatch and inside the front doors. Most of the noise does seem to come from the back so this should help.