JL Audio Subs - Why no "frequency response"?

[H-Town Speed]

I've been shopping around for an 8 inch sub to replace the blown Kenwood one. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the JL Audio 8W3V2-D2 and the Image Dynamics ID8 D2 V.3(If it even fits). I've been comparing subs by looking at Xmax, Fs, SPL, frequency response, RMS power handling, mounting depth, ft^3 required, etc., but I can't seem to find the frequency response on the JL 8W3V2-D2 anywhere. I already know that JL Audio operates a little different than other manufacturers since you can't purchase their equipment from online vendors(unless you don't care about a warranty), only from authorized retailers like Tweeter and local stereo shops. Is this just another JL Audio quirk or is there another reason behind it? Please help, I would really like to know.

H-Town Speed.

 

[Mark-MsP]

Most audio companies don't trust online vendors due to fake, stolen, factory reject, etc. equipment being sold online. However, sounddomain.com will keep an Image Dynamic warrenty. I assume JL isn't sold on SoundDomain.com Seeing that Image Dynamics and JL are big rivals that don't usually sell in the same store. I love Image Dynamic's work. I have 2 12" IDQ's in my trunk and I love them. Hope that helps a little.

 

[slyydrr]

if you're looking to stick w/ the stock enclosure, i know the JL is a great fit. i have the 8w3v2d4, which i would recommend... you can get it to operate @ the correct ohms by just wiring it in series. i know the stock sub operates at 8 ohms, and by wiring the d4 in series, it too operates at 8 ohms. from what i remember reading elsewhere on here, the only two subs that fit perfectly in the stock enclosure are the JL 8w3 series, and the audiobahn 8" sub (not sure exactly which one). but, IMO, i wouldn't ever choose audiobahn over JL, especially not w/ the newer JL stuff.

anyway, i can tell you, the JL sub is a vast improvement over the stock sub... its such a clean sound in general, and especially compartively speaking. if only my stock enclosure wasn't such a POS (it vibrates a LOT, and the dealer wont replace it because its "normal" and i dont feel like arguing), i wouldn't be in the process of building my own custom box. anyway, the JL sub is great, you won't regret it if you choose to go that route.

 

[slyydrr]

oh and btw, i can't find Fr either... i can tell you its not below the magical 17Hz tho

 

[H-Town Speed]

Thanks for the info guys. Yesterday I decided to remove the Kenwood sub and start to take some measurements of the box opening. Well unfortunately the Image Dynamics ID8 D2 V.3 won't fit, it's mounting depth is about 3/4" too deep and it's mounting diameter is about 5/16" to big, so it won't fit. I'm a little disappointed because I found the Image Dynamics sub on Sound Domain.com for $93.45 with no tax and free shipping and best of all the Image Dynamics warranty. I really don't like the idea of paying $120-$140 for an "8 Inch" JLAudio sub, just because it's the only one that fits. So I did a little more searching and I found an 8 Inch Cerwin Vega sub, the IT-8.0 and I kinda like it. I already have a pair of Cerwin Vega 12" Loudspeakers with matching center channel for my home theather system so I'm already partial to their deeeep bass and dead reliability. After checking the Cerwin Vega website for specs, I found that it will fit and the sucker's Fr is 25-500. Not as good as the Image Dynamics but still damn good. The only problem is that it's an older model subwoofer and I'm having a hard time finding places that sell it. But I found one place that sells it for $99.99 with free shipping, so I might go that route. What do you guys think? Do you know of any places in the Houston area that might have a good deal on the JL Audio 8W3V2-D2 sub? At this point, I'm getting a bit tired of all this ordeal. I've been searching on the web for two days trying to find a sub that I like, that has good specs and that actually fits. This is why I was asking if anyone knew the Fr specs on the JL, cause I might just put an end to this madness and breakdown and just go buy the JL sub for whatever decent price I can find. Bass withdrawals are a b****. Sorry this is so long.


H-Town Speed

 

[slyydrr]

if you really want that other sub... why not just build a small little ring that's approx. 5/16" in depth, and get some longer screws, and then just mount it that way... just a thought.

 

[byohndspeed]

i am not sure on why you are dead set on needing to know the fr. as the actuall output will change in an enclosure and the cabin size, amp ect. go with what you like the sound of, but you cant judge your home speakers to their car. due to technically they are woofers and are crossed over diffrently(unless you are talking about their seperate subwoofer setup) if you do go with the jl audio speaker get the dual 2 ohm model. this will allow you to get the most (safe) power from the stock amplifier. as for the fr of the 8w3 i think it is around 25-250

 

[slyydrr]

by the dual 2 ohm, he is referring to the 8w3v2d4, just in case you go that route... that would be the one to get IF you do get JL

 

[H-Town Speed]

I want the 8w3v2d2 which is the dual 2 ohm, so I can run the amp at it's max output. On the ring thing, if I could just buy the ring somewhere, I would be willing to go that route. I live in an apartment so making my own would have to involve me driving to my parents house to do it there, not an option right now. Plus this would make the sub protrude from the box, something I really don't want since I tend to use every bit of said trunk when traveling. I guess I want to know the Fr because I want an 8 inch sub that hits the low notes really well and alot of subs that I have been looking at have an Fr of like 30-35 Hz and that's not acceptable. I realize that the enclosure makes a vast difference, but I just want to start out with a sub that is atleast designed to put out those low frequencies.

by the dual 2 ohm, he is referring to the 8w3v2d4, just in case you go that route... that would be the one to get IF you do get JL

 

[byohndspeed]

honestly if you are looking for alot of low frequency output you will need more than just a new sub to do so. and really, you would never know the diffrence between a sub than specs out a 25-250 fr to a 35-250 fr.

 

[1sty]

I've been shopping around for an 8 inch sub to replace the blown Kenwood one. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the JL Audio 8W3V2-D2 and the Image Dynamics ID8 D2 V.3(If it even fits). I've been comparing subs by looking at Xmax, Fs, SPL, frequency response, RMS power handling, mounting depth, ft^3 required, etc., but I can't seem to find the frequency response on the JL 8W3V2-D2 anywhere. I already know that JL Audio operates a little different than other manufacturers since you can't purchase their equipment from online vendors(unless you don't care about a warranty), only from authorized retailers like Tweeter and local stereo shops. Is this just another JL Audio quirk or is there another reason behind it? Please help, I would really like to know.

H-Town Speed.

JL doesn't bother with them. A sub should play sub base, period. Ever notice a subwoofer that didn't list that it could go to under 30hz? Also over 80 hz isn't sub base so a response in that area isn't really useful. For one more reason, ANY sub will play over 80 hz, most will play even well past 200hz which is on its way to being midrange. JL uses dealers they hope are better qualified and taught about what is important in audio and in subwoofers. To that extent they know that frequency response is a pointless number. They goal is for these dealers to educate the customer aswell.

In the area of frequency resposnse we are usualy talking about a subwoofers -3db points. With a non free air subwoofer, the box determins these point, not just the suboofer. Because of this there really is no way to have a freqency response for a sub be acurate as a comparision. The response of a 8W3 in a .25 cubic foot box will be RADICLY different then the response of the same sub in a 2 cubic foot box. So in essence, you have to design the subwoofer box to accomplish what you wqant beased on the sub you've chose. Or better yet, determin the box first, then find the best sub for it!


There, now your an educated consumer too.

 

[1sty]

Most audio companies don't trust online vendors due to fake, stolen, factory reject, etc. equipment being sold online. However, sounddomain.com will keep an Image Dynamic warrenty. I assume JL isn't sold on SoundDomain.com Seeing that Image Dynamics and JL are big rivals that don't usually sell in the same store. I love Image Dynamic's work. I have 2 12" IDQ's in my trunk and I love them. Hope that helps a little.

JL only sells in stores.. period. JL basicly is at the top of the car audio game right now. To even think about carring them you have to play ball their way, whihc usualy means you buy what and how much of what they tell you too.

Because of this those dealers that stick with them are very well protected from price undercutting vendors that are not in the buisness of educating, and selling to a customers needs. They are just in moving boxes. Thats not who JL wants to be associated with. One of the reason JL has the reputation it does is because of there dealer network.

One another subject, although they are a nice sub, Image Dynamics is a mole on JL's ass at best. Other then maybe Rockford and Alpine, right now almost no one is selling the number of amps, subs or speakers that JL does. For most shops that carry JL...JL is the go to brand.

 

[1sty]

Thanks for the info guys. Yesterday I decided to remove the Kenwood sub and start to take some measurements of the box opening. Well unfortunately the Image Dynamics ID8 D2 V.3 won't fit, it's mounting depth is about 3/4" too deep and it's mounting diameter is about 5/16" to big, so it won't fit. I'm a little disappointed because I found the Image Dynamics sub on Sound Domain.com for $93.45 with no tax and free shipping and best of all the Image Dynamics warranty. I really don't like the idea of paying $120-$140 for an "8 Inch" JLAudio sub, just because it's the only one that fits. So I did a little more searching and I found an 8 Inch Cerwin Vega sub, the IT-8.0 and I kinda like it. I already have a pair of Cerwin Vega 12" Loudspeakers with matching center channel for my home theather system so I'm already partial to their deeeep bass and dead reliability. After checking the Cerwin Vega website for specs, I found that it will fit and the sucker's Fr is 25-500. Not as good as the Image Dynamics but still damn good. The only problem is that it's an older model subwoofer and I'm having a hard time finding places that sell it. But I found one place that sells it for $99.99 with free shipping, so I might go that route. What do you guys think? Do you know of any places in the Houston area that might have a good deal on the JL Audio 8W3V2-D2 sub? At this point, I'm getting a bit tired of all this ordeal. I've been searching on the web for two days trying to find a sub that I like, that has good specs and that actually fits. This is why I was asking if anyone knew the Fr specs on the JL, cause I might just put an end to this madness and breakdown and just go buy the JL sub for whatever decent price I can find. Bass withdrawals are a b****. Sorry this is so long.




H-Town Speed

The JL will hit every note you will need it too and probably some you can't even hear. Remeber 20 HZ is the lowest that only a very few can even hear. As we age, that number comes up. I last time I tested myself I could hear from 35hz -17.7K hz.

Since I had 4 8W3's I can promise you that they will do 35 hz no problem.

 

[1sty]

I want the 8w3v2d2 which is the dual 2 ohm, so I can run the amp at it's max output. On the ring thing, if I could just buy the ring somewhere, I would be willing to go that route. I live in an apartment so making my own would have to involve me driving to my parents house to do it there, not an option right now. Plus this would make the sub protrude from the box, something I really don't want since I tend to use every bit of said trunk when traveling. I guess I want to know the Fr because I want an 8 inch sub that hits the low notes really well and alot of subs that I have been looking at have an Fr of like 30-35 Hz and that's not acceptable. I realize that the enclosure makes a vast difference, but I just want to start out with a sub that is atleast designed to put out those low frequencies.

Keep in mind the 3db. That 30 hz limit doesn't mean the sub can't play 30 hz, it just means that it might be 3 db less then the rest of the sub bass range. Also, other then syntheticly created bass tracks, almost nothing goes that low naturaly. Hell even most rap uses high Fr now and techno is often over 100 hz up in the mid bass realm.

 

[slyydrr]

I want the 8w3v2d2 which is the dual 2 ohm, so I can run the amp at it's max output. On the ring thing, if I could just buy the ring somewhere, I would be willing to go that route. I live in an apartment so making my own would have to involve me driving to my parents house to do it there, not an option right now. Plus this would make the sub protrude from the box, something I really don't want since I tend to use every bit of said trunk when traveling. I guess I want to know the Fr because I want an 8 inch sub that hits the low notes really well and alot of subs that I have been looking at have an Fr of like 30-35 Hz and that's not acceptable. I realize that the enclosure makes a vast difference, but I just want to start out with a sub that is atleast designed to put out those low frequencies.

just a reminder.. keep in mind that the stock sub grill will NOT fit another aftermarket sub.. just an FYI.

 

[chuyler1]

I just finished putting two ID8v3s in my P5.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25887

I went with a ported enclosure tuned around 34Hz so I can gain back some of that low end you might loose with an 8". I'm sending them 300-450 watts from my MTX Thunder 302 and they produce more than enough bass for rock music (classic rock, hard rock, heavy metal, etc) and can keep up with most pop and techno tracks.

Certain notes in rap music are noticably softer than others but as long as its above 34Hz its pretty damn loud. The downside to the ported enclosure is that below the tuned frequency, the volume drops off more severely than it would in a sealed enclosure. Fortunatly, I don't listen to rap music very often so I rarely notice that I am running 8"s instead of 12"s.

 

[H-Town Speed]

Thanks 1sty and byohndspeed, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I usually just listen to rock and latin music, but occasionally I like to play a little rap and the occasional old school DJ Magic Mike or Techmaster PEB just for s**** and giggles and although I realize that it's only an 8" I just want a sub that'll handle it atleast moderately well. You guys have help me make my decision much easier, JL Audio 8W3V2-D2 it is then.

Nice setup chuyler1. Looks really good.

So then the stock grill won't fit the JL sub??? Why? Is the JL's diameter larger/smaller? Or is it because of their long excursion?

By the way, I went to Car Toys yesterday. I walked in and I was just gonna go straight to the sound room because I just wanted to see what kind of 8 inch subs they had on display. An older man about in his 50's stops me and asks if he can help me. I told him that I wanna look at your 8 inch subs. He asks me if I wanted single or dual voice coil and I told him it really didn't matter to me, I just needed it to play at 4 ohms and handle atleast 125 watts rms. He starts to tell me that it does matter because dual voice coil subs handle more watts. I'm thinking to myself, "bulls*** not all of them, some handle the same watts in both configurations, but the dual voice coil one just offers more ways to wire it up." He then asks me if I drive a Ford (Focus SVT I presume) and tells me that what they have been installing in these cars is an MTX 8 inch. I tell him that I don't drive a Ford, that I drive a Mazdaspeed Protege and the guys on a Mazda message forum recommended that I look at a JL Audio 8w3v2 with dual 2 ohm voice coils because it will play at 4 ohms and handle 125 watts rms. I told him that the MTX can't handle 125 watts rms, only 100. He checks his computer and says that they don't have any in stock, only the dual 4 ohm voice coil one, but that it can be wired up to play at 4 ohms. I told him no it can't. It can only play at 2 or 8 ohms. He has this puzzled look on his face, like oh s*** I thinks he's right. Then he goes in the back and comes back with an MTX 8 inch and says that what I should do is get this MTX sub and buy a $15 Car Toys extended warranty so that if anything ever happens to it I can just come in and they would "bench test" it to make sure it doesn't work and then I would get a new one and it will still be cheaper than buying the JL Audio sub. Once again, this MTX sub only handles 100 watts rms(read: voided warranty-amp handles 125 watts rms) and had a puny little magnet and was light as hell and looked cheap. So I knew I would be using that extended warranty in no time. By this point I'm fuming. I told him that I didn't want to mess with taking the chance that this sub would blow and I would have to take it out of the car and have to bring it in and get a knew one. I told him that that's why I wanted to know the price of the JL Audio, because I knew that it would easily handle the 125 watts rms that my amp would push and I already knew that it would fit and sound good. I asked him how much it was for the JL dual 2 ohm sub and if I decided to buy how long would it take to get here. He said he had two in the warehouse and that it would take a couple of days to get here and that the price was $139.95 plus tax. I told him thank you very much that's all I wanted to know and I literally stormed out of there!!! Man I was pissed!!!!!!! I WILL NEVER GO TO THAT F'ING STORE AGAIN! Who the hell did he think he was trying to tell me that I should get a 60 dollar woofer that only handled 100 watts rms and a f'ing warranty because it would be cheaper for me in the long run than to get the more expensive JL. What the hell, did I go in there with a welfare sticker on my forehead that I didn't know about? I mean s*** it's not like I'm some teenage punk who went in wearing ratty old clothes. I'm 29 year old and I was wearing blue jeans, dressy shoes and $60 Calvin Klein shirt. All I wanted to know was what kind of 8 inch subs they had, what they sounded like and how much. I didn't even get to listen to any of them. Maybe I'll have better luck at Tweeter when I go this weekend.

Sorry this was so long, but I really had to let out some steam.

H-Town Speed.

 

[1sty]

Having worked in car audio retail for a few years, I know that you have just been the victum of "Sell whats in the barn". Basicly he wanted you to buy that minute and MTX is what he had.

The funny thing is that running a 2 ohm sub isn't as likely to nuke the sub as it is the amp. If you had listened to that clown you'd likely have a molten amp in a short time or best case an amp that constantly went into protection mode.

Good bulls*** detector. I'd suggest writing a letter to the manager there. Who knows the manager might even call you up and offer the JL at the cost of the MTX . Not likely but maybe.

Tweeter should be better. They are very well reviewed in TX.

 

[H-Town Speed]

The problem is that I think he might have been the manager. He was wearing a white buttoned up shirt and dress slacks. I'll just go check out Tweeter or one of the local stereo shops that are authorized to carry JL. Hmmm, or maybe I'll take at trip to South Texas to see my parents and go check out what kind of deal Pedro, the owner of D-Tronics can get me. I know that in McAllen no place that I've gone to can beat his prices. We'll see.