Intake Intake Intake
- Thread starter crzywolve
- Start date
maitai92 said:
If I wanted to go turbo, I would spend the money for the FULL conversion. I'm not a racer, don't plan on being one, and don't see the point in spending THAT much money for th work. If I wanted something with a turbo, I would take the money that one would cost, use my paid off LX for trade, and go get either an Audi or Lexus.
If I decide to do too much more to my ride, after I save the money I'm going with header + catback and intake. Then the Akusa Sublimes on 17's
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crzywolve said:If I wanted to go turbo, I would spend the money for the FULL conversion. I'm not a racer, don't plan on being one, and don't see the point in spending THAT much money for th work. If I wanted something with a turbo, I would take the money that one would cost, use my paid off LX for trade, and go get either an Audi or Lexus.
If I decide to do too much more to my ride, after I save the money I'm going with header + catback and intake. Then the Akusa Sublimes on 17's
hehe, well bro, we cant tell you where to put ur money. Its all up to you. Just simple opinions, thats all. But yea, there are bunch of people on this forum who stick ot N/A only.
As I always say...there are 3 kinds of people in this world
1. people who want to get from point A to point B
2. people who want to get from point A to point B in luxury
and finally 3. people who want to get from point A to point B really fast.
Happy modding!!! (thumb)
true true ... to be quite honest, the biggest thing that got me started in moding my car was my roommate. He has a 2001 Audi A4. SWEET ride!! Wide body kit, chipped, turbo, intercooler, much more. We have had the car in a sideways drift several times. He came home one day from work, and with my gf sitting there says "one day you are going to come home and your car is going to be in pieces in the pool from my car eating it up and spitting it out" LOL Thus, the mods begin
Minishotglass
Member
- :
- 03.5 mp5 5spd
DiS said:
No flame intended toward you either bro. But I think you're pointing to the wrong person when you say "obviously you need to do more research" because obviously you're one step behind. When you are referring to SOLELY TEMPERATURE as a means of a bigger combustion, you are referring to one of the biggest myths/misconceptions in intake theory. Temperature is only ONE OF THE FACTORS that affect the density of air. The other is PRESSURE. Both temperature and pressure are important factors which affect the density of air. Density = mass/volume. Increasing pressure will decrease volume therefore providing a high density. The anatomy of a CAI itself does not allow for increased pressure because of its length.
DiS said:
What "others"? Engineers? Physicists? If you havent noticed yet, I'm a science oriented kinda guy. I like to see hard solid facts from credible sources. I don't really care for what "others" (marketing people, advertisers, ricers, n00bs) WILL SAY. In the end, you can remain in a fantasy land of myths but you cannot defy the laws of physics. I'm sure many true enthusiasts on this forum can say the same.
DiS said:
No offense, I'm sure you knew about density=mass/volume and that temperature and PRESSURE affect the density of air that enters the combustion chamber. You just forgot to mention it when you were talking about CAI's and colder temperature. I am not wasting my breath, I'm sure I helped crzywolve make a SMART and EDUCATED decision on what he spends his HARD EARNED MONEY on.
DiS said:
Sorry pal, no flame intended again. The engineers at Injen (picked namebrand for example) designed the intake so that there wouldnt be any fitment issues for our cars. They simply wouldnt waste any time on a protege, or any other vehicle where lack of demand for aftermarket parts exists. The marketing people are getting a lot of sh*ts and giggles on victims who are spending $200+ bucks on some piping/filter joke. I am not leading anybody anywhere, I am just trying to uncover the myths that have been created by a bunch of uneducated fools and allowing people new to the scene (or even those who've been around for a while) to make educated decisions on what and where they spend their money, that's all
Good day.Minishotglass: Density? Yes Im aware of that. If you didnt feel anything while having SRI or CAI on ur car instead of stock airbox then sorry but then you either drive like a granny or cant feel anything. with longer tubing the presure increases unlike with shorter. Take a straw try to suck the air through it, yes its hard. Now cut a small piece of the straw and try to suck through it, obviously its easier to suck through shorter piece.
Ahh the good old intake debate rears its ugly head again Basically no matter how u want to argue it either a SRI or CAI will be absolutly necessary if u plan on doing any serious mods. Although an intake may decrease the pressure and corresponding density of the air it will dramatically increase the velocity, especially at high rpms versus the stock air box setup. The stock air box wasnt engineered for performance but was engineered for sound dampening. I have seen personally how adding an intake onto an already developed setup helped dramatically. Now by itself it wont show much in terms of gains on a protege, other cars are different and high output vehicles can show substantial gains with just intakes, but i will reiterate that if u are building up the engine the intake is indispensable...which one doesnt really matter.
Basically no matter how u want to argue it either a SRI or CAI will be absolutly necessary if u plan on doing any serious mods. Although an intake may decrease the pressure and corresponding density of the air it will dramatically increase the velocity, especially at high rpms versus the stock air box setup. The stock air box wasnt engineered for performance but was engineered for sound dampening. I have seen personally how adding an intake onto an already developed setup helped dramatically. Now by itself it wont show much in terms of gains on a protege, other cars are different and high output vehicles can show substantial gains with just intakes, but i will reiterate that if u are building up the engine the intake is indispensable...which one doesnt really matter.akhilleus said:Ahh the good old intake debate rears its ugly head again
Well put Greg! (thumb)
GearSlammer
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium MSP-TOTALED
hey kymp5, i PMed you a few days ago, didnt know if youve checked it or not.
minishotglass has the physics right, but intakes provide more power than you all think. It definitely helps you when you do exhaust too, since it's hard for the intake to make you power when you have a big cork(stock exhaust) in the system.
The heat associated with SRIs is minimal. What are CAIs made from? Aluminum. Because of their length, the CAI absorbs a tonne of heat on it's way to the intake manifold, and if the air's not hot by then, it will be when it enters the engine anyway. Aluminum is great at absorbing, and transfering heat.
Longer thinner tubing maintains velocity, but can be a restriction at higher RPM. Technically CAIs allow you to maintain velocity at lower RPM. BUT because of how much of a restriction they can be(air doesn't like to make so many twists and bends), power can drop off at all RPM. With a short ram, they're so free flowing, and parasidic losses are minimal, they help increase volumetric effeciency at all RPM, so they tend to make power and torque throughout the entire rev range.
So listen up people. SHORT RAM INTAKES ARE BETTER. No competition. If you use the same kind of filter for both, the SRI will 99% of the time give you more power and torqe than the CAI. Cold air intakes are the biggest thing going in the scene that's a complete waste of time.
Click on complete results for both SRIs and CAIs. You'll see the dyno doesn't lie.
http://www.tprmag.com/issue/1/1_challenge_2.shtml
The heat associated with SRIs is minimal. What are CAIs made from? Aluminum. Because of their length, the CAI absorbs a tonne of heat on it's way to the intake manifold, and if the air's not hot by then, it will be when it enters the engine anyway. Aluminum is great at absorbing, and transfering heat.
Longer thinner tubing maintains velocity, but can be a restriction at higher RPM. Technically CAIs allow you to maintain velocity at lower RPM. BUT because of how much of a restriction they can be(air doesn't like to make so many twists and bends), power can drop off at all RPM. With a short ram, they're so free flowing, and parasidic losses are minimal, they help increase volumetric effeciency at all RPM, so they tend to make power and torque throughout the entire rev range.
So listen up people. SHORT RAM INTAKES ARE BETTER. No competition. If you use the same kind of filter for both, the SRI will 99% of the time give you more power and torqe than the CAI. Cold air intakes are the biggest thing going in the scene that's a complete waste of time.
Click on complete results for both SRIs and CAIs. You'll see the dyno doesn't lie.
http://www.tprmag.com/issue/1/1_challenge_2.shtml
We have seen this before.. I still think a CAI is better...It only has 2 bends which considering its diamater cant be that restrictive. Also i still cant justify pulling hot air from the engine compartment....Also i would think that it is harder to feed fresh air into the engine compartment than into the fender well if it has proper openings. And although the aluminum transfers heat it still insulates which would still lower the temp vs bringing air from directly in the engine compartment. Also my CAI showed its gains at the top end and actually lost a bit of low end torque. ANother thing is if CAI were ineffective why would the Tripoint NA WC car use one. 
edit: this writeup explains some things
first that an SRI is good for engines pushing very high rpm ... not us
Also that chassis dyno's dont simulate fresh moving air
http://www.geocities.com/teamprotocol/intakearticle.html
so for u gen1gt an SRI would be good....for me it isnt.
edit: this writeup explains some things
first that an SRI is good for engines pushing very high rpm ... not us
Also that chassis dyno's dont simulate fresh moving air
http://www.geocities.com/teamprotocol/intakearticle.html
so for u gen1gt an SRI would be good....for me it isnt.
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ProtegeES03
Member
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- '03 ES
Solution: get the K&N so you can convert between SRI and CAI to your hearts desire.
Intakes are useless for me. My car has an Airflow Meter. Even if I don't put in the Webers, I'll be making a custom manifold with velocity stacks surrounded by a plenum, and a custom intake. The sooner I get stand-alone(if I do) the better, since I need to lose the AFM...even though it's an RX7 meter, it's still a pretty big restriction. So...no SRI OR CAI for me....
Greg, you probably lost torque with your CAI, because the diameter is too big. Even though it's long, it's still not able to maintain velocity at low RPM. It would be no different from putting a 3" exhaust on our cars....
Next time any of you guys with a CAI goes out for a drive, lift the hood and put your hand on your intake tubing. Tell me how 'cold' it is. That hot aluminum is an excellent air heater. A guy on the Acura-Honda board put a temp probe in his intake manifold, and drove around with both CAI and SRI, and he said the temperature difference was only a few degrees.
Greg, you probably lost torque with your CAI, because the diameter is too big. Even though it's long, it's still not able to maintain velocity at low RPM. It would be no different from putting a 3" exhaust on our cars....
Next time any of you guys with a CAI goes out for a drive, lift the hood and put your hand on your intake tubing. Tell me how 'cold' it is. That hot aluminum is an excellent air heater. A guy on the Acura-Honda board put a temp probe in his intake manifold, and drove around with both CAI and SRI, and he said the temperature difference was only a few degrees.
sri > cai anyday. i found that out myself when i sold my injen cai and got a aem sri. it brand doesnt really matter, but get a sri with a nice filter and your gonna feel a difference. i dont get how some of you guys can say intakes do nothing... please. the car feels WAY different with an intake. much more air is being sucked in compared to having that big ass stock airbox.
off topic but have you seen a product called megasquirt i belive, a lot of rx7 guys are using it to get rid of the AFM, and it only cost like $200-250.00Gen1GT said:Intakes are useless for me. My car has an Airflow Meter. Even if I don't put in the Webers, I'll be making a custom manifold with velocity stacks surrounded by a plenum, and a custom intake. The sooner I get stand-alone(if I do) the better, since I need to lose the AFM...even though it's an RX7 meter, it's still a pretty big restriction. So...no SRI OR CAI for me....
Greg, you probably lost torque with your CAI, because the diameter is too big. Even though it's long, it's still not able to maintain velocity at low RPM. It would be no different from putting a 3" exhaust on our cars....
Next time any of you guys with a CAI goes out for a drive, lift the hood and put your hand on your intake tubing. Tell me how 'cold' it is. That hot aluminum is an excellent air heater. A guy on the Acura-Honda board put a temp probe in his intake manifold, and drove around with both CAI and SRI, and he said the temperature difference was only a few degrees.
Minishotglass
Member
- :
- 03.5 mp5 5spd
DiS said:
You guys keep using the word "feel". You guys need to realize how UNRELIABLE butt-dyno is. The human senses are one of the worst when it comes to comparing before and after acceleration. Especially the thought of installing a supposed "increased performance" part, and the hearing of a louder sound really influences what you "feel" even if it is in fact a LITTLE, NO INCREASE, or even LOSS in performance.batmang said:
I completely agree here with Gen1GT that many people have the misconception that just drawing air through a longer tube from a "cooler" location will maintain its "cool" temperature. In real world/practical use you will notice that the tubing before the throttle body would have heated up negating the "COLD" in cold air intake.Gen1GT said:
One thing about dynos....dynos are great for benchmarking performance at the wheels when your car is stationary. In the real world, a third/fourth gear run would have you guys going 80+mph, you must also account for the velocity/amount of air traveling into your filter, parasitic air resistance drag, weight of vehicle etc.. which are all ignored when you dyno a vehicle.
Minishotglass: butt dyno's? I took my car to the REAL dyno, and saw increase. Stop living in denial....why dont you be a president since you know so much (boom08)
Before the intake camshaft install I had 121 whp. Now its time to dyno the car again.
Before the intake camshaft install I had 121 whp. Now its time to dyno the car again.
