True - that it increases the voltage - but only under boost.
There is an interesting thread ->over there<- with discussion about the stock in-tank fuel pump and voltage.
This might be the solution.
I'm calling out the guy that claims to have installed a Walbro in an MS6...
- Thread starter ATE BALLER
- Start date
True - that it increases the voltage - but only under boost.
There is an interesting thread ->over there<- with discussion about the stock in-tank fuel pump and voltage.
This might be the solution.
JumpingJackson
Member
Usually its because they post in the ms6 section about non-ms6 related stuff atleast once a day. 
Usually its because they post in the ms6 section about non-ms6 related stuff atleast once a day.
Then call them a newb and move on.It's not like mine is the first car i have done mods to.Some of you speed owners could learn alot from a few of us since we have been modding before the speed came out.
Ahh,but I have the V6......and am naturally aspirated right now.I will be going turbo very shortly.
A.It's not my first turbo FWD,so I know what to expect.
B.At least I won't scatter my rear axle on the track,or shear off bolts in the rear diff.
we can add mounts and fix the problem, in the other hand your traction will always suck! (evil)
and i dont worry about my engine falling off the engine bay!
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ate baller has sparked my interest on this and i have a simple solution for you guys. you dont have to buy some crazy tool and do any crazy tricks to increase flow. just keep the stock in tank pump and add an in-line pump to it.
my lord how are there 5 pages to this thread and nobody thought of that ?
i will say it in this post too. i honestly dont think this will help too much. all of the vendors and tuning places i have spoken to and worked 1 on 1 with, all have said the in tank pump is good on this car. it is the cam driven pump that is the weak link. you can push all the extra fuel at the cam driven pump you want, if it is maxxed out, all that extra fuel is going right down the return line back into the tank ! i just dont believe it. i will be the first one to buy a additional pump if i see more proof, but for now, i dont buy it. boost cut is triggered by the map sensor. more fuel wont change your MAp readings, so boost cut above 18psi should still be there. if it is not on your ate ballers car....maybe he ****** up his MAP sensor while removing the ATP thing.
my lord how are there 5 pages to this thread and nobody thought of that ?
i will say it in this post too. i honestly dont think this will help too much. all of the vendors and tuning places i have spoken to and worked 1 on 1 with, all have said the in tank pump is good on this car. it is the cam driven pump that is the weak link. you can push all the extra fuel at the cam driven pump you want, if it is maxxed out, all that extra fuel is going right down the return line back into the tank ! i just dont believe it. i will be the first one to buy a additional pump if i see more proof, but for now, i dont buy it. boost cut is triggered by the map sensor. more fuel wont change your MAp readings, so boost cut above 18psi should still be there. if it is not on your ate ballers car....maybe he ****** up his MAP sensor while removing the ATP thing.
ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
BOOST CUT IS FUEL CUT!!!!!!! THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!! The map clamp just pushes it back, that's it. The "boost cut" is really a fuel cut due to the ecu demanding more fuel than the fuel system can handle at "x"psi. Why do you think the clamp has to be adjusted with temp. and mods? CP-E even says it themselves that you'll have to lower the voltage on the map clamp if you add more mods or the temps go down more. In open loop, this "can" be dangerous because the ecu goes into speed-density calculations, where it NEEDS to know the map. Luckily with these cars, the turbo is pretty well maxed out, so the density goes down the higher you raise boost over it's efficiency range. That means your motor won't blow when you're telling the ecu to adjust based on lower manifold pressures. Also why people have been blowing motors with bigger turbos and a map clamp. The ecu sees lower pressure and dumps less fuel, lean out, kaboom. With the stock turbo, the extra boost is so damned hot, the density is down enough for it to still be a safe mixture.
If my map sensor was messed up, I would get a code and the car probably would not run right in wot, if at all.
The cdfp IS NOT MAXED OUT!!! IT CAN ONLY DEAL WITH WHAT IT IS GIVEN!!! A high pressure pump AMPLIFIES it's supply. PERIOD! It's the laws of fluid dynamics, and Mazda didn't change that. If you feed it more, it pushes more (up to a certain point). The stock cdfp can handle more than the stock itfp is giving it, and my results are direct proof of that. The upgraded ones can handle it better which is why they have good results too.
The only time the extra fuel is sent back to the tank is when the rail pressure regulator is open (99.9% of the time). Under wot, the rpr slowly closes toward high rpm. When it's closed, maximum potential of the system is reached, and full flow is allowed. With a stock fuel system, the injectors draw the rail pressure (with maximized supply from the pump system) down to a point where the ecu deems it unsafe, resulting in fuel cut. With an upgraded fuel system, the maximized supply is greater, resulting in longer lasting rail pressure (no fuel cut). That's all. Nothing crazy. I'm not claiming to be any faster than before, other than not having fuel cut.
The in line pump has been brought up in the other forum several times, and you still have to get into the tank so you can make a clean penetration for the return. That and you're drawing even more voltage than before (twice or more actually), and you have to work it into the hard-lines that mazda was kind enough to give us.
If my map sensor was messed up, I would get a code and the car probably would not run right in wot, if at all.
The cdfp IS NOT MAXED OUT!!! IT CAN ONLY DEAL WITH WHAT IT IS GIVEN!!! A high pressure pump AMPLIFIES it's supply. PERIOD! It's the laws of fluid dynamics, and Mazda didn't change that. If you feed it more, it pushes more (up to a certain point). The stock cdfp can handle more than the stock itfp is giving it, and my results are direct proof of that. The upgraded ones can handle it better which is why they have good results too.
The only time the extra fuel is sent back to the tank is when the rail pressure regulator is open (99.9% of the time). Under wot, the rpr slowly closes toward high rpm. When it's closed, maximum potential of the system is reached, and full flow is allowed. With a stock fuel system, the injectors draw the rail pressure (with maximized supply from the pump system) down to a point where the ecu deems it unsafe, resulting in fuel cut. With an upgraded fuel system, the maximized supply is greater, resulting in longer lasting rail pressure (no fuel cut). That's all. Nothing crazy. I'm not claiming to be any faster than before, other than not having fuel cut.
The in line pump has been brought up in the other forum several times, and you still have to get into the tank so you can make a clean penetration for the return. That and you're drawing even more voltage than before (twice or more actually), and you have to work it into the hard-lines that mazda was kind enough to give us.
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JumpingJackson
Member
Ate, so what is your proposed solution to all this?
forrestang
Member
If you saw some of the stuff on the other forum about it.....it's a bit more nailed down.
ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
Well, I think before we'll be able to successfully tune some outstanding numbers out of this car, we'll first need proper equipment (ie, reliable fuel system, reliable electrical system, 3 or 5 bar map sensor, piggyback or standalone, ect... We also need to find a way to lock the ecu in open loop. This is important because closed loop on the ms6's ecu can't successfully be adjusted, since cobb doesn't like us. I know of one way that will deffinately work. It activates a no boost tune, but it will force open loop which is something completely constant. Terminate the O2 sensor signal(s). The ecu cannot use closed loop w/o knowing the afr. A member of the other forum had to drive his car with a busted sensor that ultimately could not work, and said it ran fine until he went higher than 3psi of boost. So it goes into open loop, but activates a bad open loop map to keep everything safe. From there though, one "should" be able to tune the hell out of that bad map and make something good out of it. I'd rather find a way to lock in the normal open loop mode that activates under wot, but I'm not sure of a way to do that.
