Definately header and cams(custom). Any custom reworking of the exhaust is gonna get pricey and may not show the gains u want. The cast exhaust pieces are also heavy and really dont flow well. As i have always said, I think 130whp is very realistic w/o management. I mean i ran with a civic si all the way to 120mph ...when he started pulling away. I hadnt even installed my cam or CAI yet and the new si puts 125whp down....
I want at least 130 rwhp
- Thread starter PR5Matt
- Start date
I didn't see a single dyno in those links for a short header. I saw some for the AWR and the reactive header but I was under the impression that each of those replaced the 1st factory cat.Installshield 2 said:
Does a dyno exist that baselines a factory header compared to a shorty header that retains the 1st cat?
I think the shorty header is a waste unless u need to stay emissions legal. But actually there is no guarantee that the header will be emissions legal since no one has actually had testing with it on. Also unless u get the midpipe and hi-flow cat and downpipe(which i dont even know i they are available) then the gains will be minimal. I am sure they would be comparable to a hollow cat honestly. And as of yet i havent posted any wagner shorty header dyno's so those are ractive and AWR.
As far as emmisions are concerned, I had mine done last January with the Ractive Header and a catback (and other mods...see below) and passed with flying colors. I do still have the secondary cat and relocated the second 02 behind it. The only problem you may run into would be the visual inspection..depending on how picky they get about 1 cat instead of 2..most of the shops I dont think really care...as long as they see 1 cat they are happy..
DooMer_MP3
Member
Some of you might remember "Traveler" back in the day. He had come up with his own shorty header, and actually sold it to a few people, and I believe his dyno gains were 7whp.
Chris
Chris
Familia323
_______________
blackp5ca: do you know what your gains were from the throttle body and intake manifold? Where are you at whp wise now?
I honestly dont know any actual #'s..the closest dyno is about 2 hours away from me..hoping to get it done soon though. I am running the stock throttle body and intake manifold..what I did do was flow match the throttle body to the intake when I installed the Outlaw engineering spacers, and as for the intake Mani itself I removed the VTCS butterflies, smoothed out the inside, bit of a mild port and polish I guess you could say (removed the lip) and thenflow matched or port matched the intake manifold to the head (again with the OE spacers) Overall...dont know if It did a lot performance wise but I did notice the intake manifold temps were reduced quite a bit..
I've been thinking about playing around with the e-manage or SAFC 2 with an o2 simulator to see what I can do with fuel and ignition timing..just waiting for some more info on here..(from the guinea pigs)
Since I dont have an actual dyno I'm going to guess I'm close to the 130whp now..but again..just a guess. I can tell you the car is a blast on the highway..pulls strong to 7000rpm
I've been thinking about playing around with the e-manage or SAFC 2 with an o2 simulator to see what I can do with fuel and ignition timing..just waiting for some more info on here..(from the guinea pigs)
Since I dont have an actual dyno I'm going to guess I'm close to the 130whp now..but again..just a guess. I can tell you the car is a blast on the highway..pulls strong to 7000rpm
mp5smuggler
Member
there are posts of the wagner shorty header i posted them. i posted them along with dynos of miker's who had factory headers along with the same bolt ons i had.... intake and muffler.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
1sty said:
Oh I see...Didn't know that was what you were looking for...
In reality the entire front plumbing of the exhaust is to blame...The cast collector is restrictive, and merges exhaust pulses way to close to the head...The primary cat is said to be less restrictive compared to some older OBD-II systems, but where it is mounted causes extreme heat to the surrounding area...as well as forces the exhaust gas to be merged so quickly...and the stock downpipe is arguably the most restrictive single part on the entire car...period...
so a shorty cures the cast manifold problem for the most part, and helps by allowing the pulses to orient and actually begin to create a vacuum...But you still have all the damn heat from the primary cat...and you still have the stock DP...
like Doomer mentioned...the late Traveler of 2 1/2 years ago was making some shorty headers, I saw his dyno showing a little over 8whp...and the fact that the long tube headers are netting around 12whp does little to illustrate my hatred for the stock downpipe...But if you plan on any more mods, especially a full catback...the stock downpipe is one hell of a bottle neck...it is crush bent, and the ID of the 90 degree bend dips to under 2 inches...(its hard to calculate exactly, the sides of the pipe bend slightly outward, while the inner and outer portions of the bend are almost touching...its different between every one, if you get what i mean)...Unless you have some strict emission laws in your area, I would definately go with a full header if a full cat back exhaust was also a planned mod...But the shorty header definately helps some...
I'm gonna recommend full custom exhaust for everyone. A 4-1 header into full 2 1/4" exhaust with high flow cat and resonator will give you the best results. Use this site to design your header, just remember to punch in the stats for what you want your engine to be, not what it is now. Although you won't see maximum gains now, you will when it's modded out.
http://www.headerdesign.com/index.asp
http://www.headerdesign.com/index.asp
Hey, what's up man. I'm over in Hamilton. I'm pretty sure Essential Speed does have a dyno, and they're in Cambridge. That's less than an hour for you. Also, DL Motorsports in Burlington(where I get my work done) has a dyno, and it's only $75. He's generous with his time and resouces too.blackp5ca said:
If you think you're making 130whp, there's a lot of guys here who'd like to see that, since they've been having problems reaching that number without a computer. 120whp seems to be a wall without a computer....
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Glowspeedp5
Member
- :
- 2002 Mazda Protege5
I forgot where I have seen it. It is in states with visual inspections on emissions. Its a dummy cat you bolt around the pipe.. It was like 25 bucks... As long as you have a cat on I think you would pass. In Maryland I seen cars blowing oil and they passed the roller test... My escort gt failed so I had coil overs and they could not get the car on the rollers so they just tested with the tail pipe and it passed..
Thanks for the info Gen1..I was at Essential Speed on Sunday but didnt see a dyno in there anywhere..although I didnt ask Kevin if he had one...maybe I'll check with your guy Burlington soon.
Like I said..that was just a guess at hp # I may be way off..may be right on..without an actual dyno pull I wont know.
...as of now..that $75 can go towards the 02 modifier or e-manage...so it might be a while before I get to it.
Like I said..that was just a guess at hp # I may be way off..may be right on..without an actual dyno pull I wont know.
...as of now..that $75 can go towards the 02 modifier or e-manage...so it might be a while before I get to it.
Thx, bro. This should be required reading for all contemplating headers. As a result of this, I'll probably pull the ES shorty off the '5 and put in my wife's, buy the pieces based on the results I got from working the Header Design formula and see what happens with a new DP and a hi-flow cat.Gen1GT said:
Very cool program. One problem though was that i didnt know the exhaust valve length. But from it i did deduce that shorter primaries(29"-30"+) are better for mid/high which works for me, not too much loss of torque and such. also i thought it had a cam calculation program too, guess not. good find gen1gt
Honsetly, with your whack of mods, I think you're due for some dyno time. Not just to see what kind of power you're making, but to get things running in sync with each other. Mike at DL Motorsports can tell by the way it runs, how it sounds, and he can hook the wideband up to see what your A/F is. I dyno every mod, so I know where it leaves me. If I do 10 mods at once, and they only get me 5hp, I don't know which one got me power, and which parts aren't working together. One at a time means I know right off if it's working.blackp5ca said:
