I think Turkey is good......
- Thread starter GA_MZDASPEED
- Start date
First off, why someone calls it a turkey is beyond me. It sounds NOTHING like a ******* Turkey. Has anyone here actually ever heard a turkey?
Next, I tell this to a lot of new people and old. Read what you read on this forum with a bit of common sense. Realize that there is an aweful lot of people theorizing and speculating about what they "think" is a problem, and how the "think" things should be done. Now granted, there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, but I often see threads upon threads of nothing but theories which are basically bulls***. Sometimes, it even causes people to be concerned about certain things in their car when there is no need for alarm. I'm not just talking about the turkey here for those that can not read between the lines.
I'm no turbo expert, and I'll never pretend to be ( hence why I never post in the FI section ) but I trust that the Turbo is just fine as is. Turkey....whatever you want to call it, sounds just fine to me. Great for scaring people on the side of the road
Next, I tell this to a lot of new people and old. Read what you read on this forum with a bit of common sense. Realize that there is an aweful lot of people theorizing and speculating about what they "think" is a problem, and how the "think" things should be done. Now granted, there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, but I often see threads upon threads of nothing but theories which are basically bulls***. Sometimes, it even causes people to be concerned about certain things in their car when there is no need for alarm. I'm not just talking about the turkey here for those that can not read between the lines.
I'm no turbo expert, and I'll never pretend to be ( hence why I never post in the FI section ) but I trust that the Turbo is just fine as is. Turkey....whatever you want to call it, sounds just fine to me. Great for scaring people on the side of the road
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DiscreetSpeed
Member
- :
- 03 MSP
you all love the surge...heh
i hate the stupid sound.
i hate the stupid sound.
MrRoseBlackMSP
Member
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- Black Mica Speed #538
The similar sound on the higher boosted/higher worked on cars is turbo laugh, i know a guy who put a bigger turbo in his WRX and a crazy huge blow off valve in and it sounded just like the "gooble"
"what you're hearing is a resonance frequency going backwards on the intake track with the other intakes and the stock car (due to the position of the BPV). It doesn't do damage to the turbo unless you're making alot of boost.
There have been no issues of surging with our stage 1 FMIC and our CAI set-up."
Some else was saying that surge isn't harmful unless you're over 20 psi.
There have been no issues of surging with our stage 1 FMIC and our CAI set-up."
Some else was saying that surge isn't harmful unless you're over 20 psi.
That's probably right...but even in ION's description he links the two. He says the resonance won't hurt the turbo unless you're running higher boost. That means that the resonance is related directly to surging. However...it will not harm the turbo at 7 psi. The turbo also begins to lose efficiency after around 12psi from what I've been told. Chances are that even at raised boost a little surging won't hurt the turbo.
BremertonMSP
Member
- :
- 95 F-150 4x4, 89 Mustang Turbo Coupe, 87 Thunderbird Turbocoupe
I've avoided this issue up until now, but I feel the need to chime in.
Disclaimer: I'm hopped up on pain killers right now, so if I'm coming off as sounding disjointed, I am.
Anyway, I don't think the turkey sound (I also don't know why people call it that) is compressor surge. I believe it's just the sound of a properly functioning Bypass Valve. The reason I think this way is because my turbo mustang makes the exact same sound. I'm running a T-3 with about 20lbs of boost with a bpv that I got off a Volvo 740.
With my mustang, there is a very short distance between the VAF (the equivelent of a MAF on our cars) and the turbo, about 8". The bpv is located smack dab between them and is just aft of the output of the turbo. The vacuum line is about three feet long and is coming of the main vacuum tree. As you can see from the attached picture, the hoses for the bpv are not much bigger then what the msp uses.
This setup has over 160k miles on it, with a ton a hard driving since I built it. I would think that if the turkey sound is compressor surge, it would have damaged the turbo by now. But it just keeps chugging along, always up to the task.
Sorry if this doesn't make sence, I think I need a nap
Disclaimer: I'm hopped up on pain killers right now, so if I'm coming off as sounding disjointed, I am.
Anyway, I don't think the turkey sound (I also don't know why people call it that) is compressor surge. I believe it's just the sound of a properly functioning Bypass Valve. The reason I think this way is because my turbo mustang makes the exact same sound. I'm running a T-3 with about 20lbs of boost with a bpv that I got off a Volvo 740.
With my mustang, there is a very short distance between the VAF (the equivelent of a MAF on our cars) and the turbo, about 8". The bpv is located smack dab between them and is just aft of the output of the turbo. The vacuum line is about three feet long and is coming of the main vacuum tree. As you can see from the attached picture, the hoses for the bpv are not much bigger then what the msp uses.
This setup has over 160k miles on it, with a ton a hard driving since I built it. I would think that if the turkey sound is compressor surge, it would have damaged the turbo by now. But it just keeps chugging along, always up to the task.
Sorry if this doesn't make sence, I think I need a nap
Attachments
I can guarantee its compressor surge. I mean shoot, the mazdaspeed techs even said its compressor surge. Btw not the dealership ones but the ones at Mazda R&D. The bpv is either too small or the signal that it gets isn't strong enough. Could be because its shared by the wastegate. The sound that is being heard is air not escaping fast enough so its bounces off the throttle body and back through the turbo. That is the classic "chuff chuff chuff" sound that we have. Compressor surge does not immediatly damage the turbo, but with raised boost it will damage it over time.
GA_MZDASPEED
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium Speed
so because a Mazda Tech says its surge (a person who may never have worked on a turbo until he went to MSP tech training) it surge............and because two world class companies(callaway, Mazda) w/ maybe 1000's of techs and engineers did bot Fix it....it surge....does njot make sense to me ....sorry
Callaway in my eyes is a far cry from a world-class company. Would a world class company use that bad intercooler, plastic pipes, and pisspoor bpv? When was the last time you saw an aftermarket company sell any of those items? Mazda sees compressor surge as perfectly acceptable because at such low boost levels it won't really damage the turbo. People have even fixed the compressor surge problem. The stock bpv is insufficient to properly vent the pressure away in time. And just adding an aftermarket bov, there was still some surge because it was either set wrong (spring too stiff) or some people had a problem because the signal wire wasn't strong enough keep the valve open. The ones that came up with the various solutions no longer have the turkey/compressor surge.
By the way the guy that we talked to was not a standard tech. He was the guy that worked on the msp project since day one at Mazda R&D at irvine. Chinkysauvo, phreekphive, some LA peeps and myself all saw this guy. He said even the prototype msp (which by the way had powdercoated hardpipes) had compressor surge.
By the way the guy that we talked to was not a standard tech. He was the guy that worked on the msp project since day one at Mazda R&D at irvine. Chinkysauvo, phreekphive, some LA peeps and myself all saw this guy. He said even the prototype msp (which by the way had powdercoated hardpipes) had compressor surge.
GA_MZDASPEED said:
After all the different BPV/BOV setups I have tried, there is no doubt in my mind that the noise is compressor surge. There is just no other explanaition that makes sense to me after doing the things I did.
If some of you don't feel that this is a problem, that's fine, but don't rely on the fact that some rally cars make the same noise. Racing teams have the money to replace things that fail, and will sacrifice some reliability for performance if they need to.
I on the other hand do not want to risk having to spend the money on a new turbo as I know that mazda will not cover it with the mods I have done. It is important to me to prolong the life of anything under the hood for this reason.
Listen to these clips again, and tell me which car sounds healthier:
Before:
http://www.wpi.edu/~jck15243/MOV00495.MPG
After:
http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/505zoom/mov00533.mpg
Don't think that just because the turbo setup was designed by callaway, that mazda didn't stray from the specs, thus causing this problem. Look at what mazda did with racing beat's plans for the rear suspension. Based on some of your guy's logic, I could say that racing beat would never design a suspension that clunked.
If some of you don't feel that this is a problem, that's fine, but don't rely on the fact that some rally cars make the same noise. Racing teams have the money to replace things that fail, and will sacrifice some reliability for performance if they need to.
I on the other hand do not want to risk having to spend the money on a new turbo as I know that mazda will not cover it with the mods I have done. It is important to me to prolong the life of anything under the hood for this reason.
Listen to these clips again, and tell me which car sounds healthier:
Before:
http://www.wpi.edu/~jck15243/MOV00495.MPG
After:
http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/505zoom/mov00533.mpg
Don't think that just because the turbo setup was designed by callaway, that mazda didn't stray from the specs, thus causing this problem. Look at what mazda did with racing beat's plans for the rear suspension. Based on some of your guy's logic, I could say that racing beat would never design a suspension that clunked.
GA_MZDASPEED
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Titanium Speed
I give up.......................
GA_MZDASPEED said:
Man, you sound exactly like my best friends dad.
He has so much faith in japanese carmakers, that he said I was full of it when I told him about the problems associated with the car running way too rich from the factory.
He said things like, "oh, they have so many people working on tuning the PCM's, there is no way that they let the car go before fixing that".
It can and does happen bud, sorry to tell you. The automakers do not build these cars to be perfect, they don't make one that has every single bug worked out.
Mazda built this car with the budget being priority #1. A lot of things can go wrong with a car after the accountants get ahold of the plans.
GA_MZDASPEED said:
Why???? You said that you wanted to hear what people had to say, not change all of our minds
. That's what this forum is about, some people agree with you, some don't. I am simply disagreeing with your views, and stating my own, you don't have to give up.