I just read something that FREAKED me out...

[SoCalRyder7]

I read an article on knock, detonation and preignition and holy crap I almost shat myself!
Now im trippin out cuz my timing isnt perfect. It is retarded by about 1/2degree from TDC. And i have an SRI (took off the airbox and slapped a cone filter on an SRI) and a BIG ASS muffler(but stock piping) and im about to get a twin piston BOV. Am i going to get engine knock? Am i gunna detonate? Do i need splitsecond a/f , a/t or both to run this s***? s***!

I also read that turbocharged engines running 6psi should retard about 5 degrees. If i understand, our engines are meant to be N/A but mazda slapped on a turbo and intercooler to save money. Did Mazda retard the timing when they did all this or should i do it right now? God, this car makes me so uneasy.

Someone please help!

 

[2-8-1]

With enough fuel, you don't need to worry (as much) about timing. These engines are about as safe as they are gonna get on the stock tune. You shouldn't need anything to run that BOV, but your idle quality is gonna suffer.

 

[SoCalRyder7]

What do you mean "enough fuel"? Do you mean more gas by pushing on the gas pedal or by bigger fuel injectors?

 

[thecrash91]

he means running as rich as these cars do

 

[haveahotcarl]

I read an article on knock, detonation and preignition and holy crap I almost shat myself!
Now im trippin out cuz my timing isnt perfect. It is retarded by about 1/2degree from TDC. And i have an SRI (took off the airbox and slapped a cone filter on an SRI) and a BIG ASS muffler(but stock piping) and im about to get a twin piston BOV. Am i going to get engine knock? Am i gunna detonate? Do i need splitsecond a/f , a/t or both to run this s***? s***!

I also read that turbocharged engines running 6psi should retard about 5 degrees. If i understand, our engines are meant to be N/A but mazda slapped on a turbo and intercooler to save money. Did Mazda retard the timing when they did all this or should i do it right now? God, this car makes me so uneasy.

Someone please help!

As the others said, you generally have nothing to worry about. The stock tune is super rich (to help minimize detonation) and if I am not mistaken the MSP has electronic timing that is constantly changing and the only way to screw that up is by adding on piggyback controllers or replacing your ECU... (correct me if I am wrong here)

Also, putting a blanket setting like "5 deg. retarded for 6 psi." doesn't really work. It might a good starting point for tuning an engine, but timing isn't really set in stone.

The engines were designed as N/A but Mazda went to Callaway and had them ENGINEER a turbo system that would work with the engine. It wasn't an afterthought.

 

[SoCalRyder7]

OOOHHHHH OK, so baically I'm safe. Good to know. Thanks guys.

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

That is not why they turboed it. I read a article a few years ago and they test drove a MP3 and were like holy s*** this car handles great but it needs just a few more HP. And then the next year Mazda came out with the MSP. It was funny because They said something along the lines of the car needed about 30 more hp and then the MSP came out with a turbo and about 30 more hp. That was the whole thing Mazda never intended for this car to have forged internals or did they want it to compete with the SRT4 in the 1/4 mile. It was designed to be a great handling, fun car to drive. Not a absolute beast in the 1/4 mile. If they wanted a car to make alot of power and be a "Tuning" car they would have started with a different platform and not the FS-DE. Im sure with as long as mazda has been using the engine their engineers would have known the FULL capabilities of the motor. There for they knew what they were putting in the car from the get go, they knew it would never be a good platform to make crazy fast like EVOs and SRT4s. But if you really want to go fast just buy you a V8 and call it a day..... I would love to have either a LS1 or 5.3 v8 RX7 But that is just me.

 

[HighSpeed]

Im pretty sure that the ECU for an MSP is setup to run a boost map because it has a boost solenoid and won't run right if that solenoid is not pluged in or if there is a leak. Boost maps will change timing due to load and psi. So Mazda had more in mind than just slapping on a turbo and calling it a day. Otherwise we would have all kinds of issues with the stock ecu on a boosted engine.

 

[Carlinator]

Ok, let's talk about fuel ratios. Stoichiometric, which means there's exactly as much air as it takes to burn the fuel, is about 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel, or 14.7:1 ratio. You'll never see this on stock cars, because the cylinder heat can cause it to ignite before the spark plug fires. This is known as knocking, pre-ignition, or detonation, and it's bad because, essentially, the fuel burns the wrong way, at the wrong time, and it can damage your pistons or valves if it happens too much. Most cars run with a bit less air per unit of fuel, around 12.5:1.

Our cars are... special. At idle and low rpms, the air-fuel ratio is around 12:1. Under full throttle, however, the ECU dumps a crapload of fuel into the cylinders, raising our AFR to above 10:1, sometimes even 9:1. There's a lot less air for the amount of fuel being burned, so it's a lot harder to ignite spontaneously. It also makes it harder for the spark plugs to ignite, hence why the engine bogs down at full throttle stock, but it's about as resistant to detonation as you can get.

Basically, if your timing belt is off by a tooth or so you should get it fixed, but unless you try to crank your boost levels way up, you should be safe until you decide to get a tune.

 

[thecrash91]

Ok, let's talk about fuel ratios. Stoichiometric, which means there's exactly as much air as it takes to burn the fuel, is about 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel, or 14.7:1 ratio. You'll never see this on stock cars, because the cylinder heat can cause it to ignite before the spark plug fires. This is known as knocking, pre-ignition, or detonation, and it's bad because, essentially, the fuel burns the wrong way, at the wrong time, and it can damage your pistons or valves if it happens too much. Most cars run with a bit less air per unit of fuel, around 12.5:1.

Our cars are... special. At idle and low rpms, the air-fuel ratio is around 12:1. Under full throttle, however, the ECU dumps a crapload of fuel into the cylinders, raising our AFR to above 10:1, sometimes even 9:1. There's a lot less air for the amount of fuel being burned, so it's a lot harder to ignite spontaneously. It also makes it harder for the spark plugs to ignite, hence why the engine bogs down at full throttle stock, but it's about as resistant to detonation as you can get.

Basically, if your timing belt is off by a tooth or so you should get it fixed, but unless you try to crank your boost levels way up, you should be safe until you decide to get a tune.

um at low rpm and idle its helluva lot less, i believe 2 things out of the 5 or so things you said, and thats the afr at boost and the definition of the word stoichiometric... do you even have a wideband? average idle/cruising afr is 14-15:1... and even with that said a lot of people on this forum, including myself idle at around 17+:1 afr no pinging, or detonation..

 

[littlemimus]

a lot of people on this forum, including myself idle at around 17+:1 afr no pinging, or detonation..

better hope that doesnt happen at wot lol

 

[thecrash91]

nah it doesnt, its like that for a bunch of us, i know HKPRO5 is having it with his SC P5, at wot right now since im on a very basic tune i have like 10.5 afr (dont have time to tune, and my laptop only lasts 15 minutes on full charge)

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol our cars idle at 14.7 and cruise there also. at WOT on a stock car you will peg the wideband out at 10.0 our cars actually are somewhere in the 9's

 

[powderider87]

um at low rpm and idle its helluva lot less, i believe 2 things out of the 5 or so things you said, and thats the afr at boost and the definition of the word stoichiometric... do you even have a wideband? average idle/cruising afr is 14-15:1... and even with that said a lot of people on this forum, including myself idle at around 17+:1 afr no pinging, or detonation..

same here..