I did it again!
- Thread starter 6speed
- Start date
So yesterday:
After the back and forth with SMR about the O2 bung, I got the downpipe off, with most of the trouble coming from these two bolts. They are not only heavily rusted and clearly not meant for exhaust use, they aren't even metric! I ended up using a sledge to hammer a socket onto the nut side and got enough of a grip on the bolt side to get them free. They promptly went into the trash after this pic. Fortunately I have several sets of brand new metric exhaust bolts and nuts on hand, so replacing them was easy.
I then ran to the store for a 10mm hex key socket and got the O2 bung plug out, and then the WBO2 installed:
The plug itself:
Shortly after I took the above two pics, I decided that now was the best time to remove the factory NBO2 post-cat, and so did that, installing the plug in that location.
While re-installing the downpipe, I inadvertentently rubbed against the driver's front brake line, wiping away the dust to reveal a handy surprise!
Yup! The prior owner already installed SS brake lines. So I can sell the new set I have on the shelf.
The most nervous I have been so far during the install, wiring the WBO2 into the Hydra, but i got it done with none of the other wires pulling out and validated my points over and over. An annoyance was that the manual has the slots pictured from the perspective of the Hydra itself, not the plugs, so the numbered slots are mirrored in orientation.
The Hydra all plugged in, and a shot demonstrating how much other wiring I have there. This is going to be all nicely zip tied up and out of the way. For now though, the Hydra's wiring takes precedence, everything else can just get out of the way.
So I turned the key to on, connected the laptop, and started checking through the pre-startup stuff. Everything seemed good, except I missed the battery. It was low at 10.5v or so. No go on starting, so I disconnected the battery and put it on a charger for a couple hours. Went back out and after a ~10sec crank, no fire. Waited for about 5 minutes, poking through things, gave it another shot, this time firing up after about a 5sec crank.
Sounded awful! HUGE vacuum leak sound PSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHH loud enough my wife could hear it in the house along with the engine/exhaust note, unstable idle, and like a V8 was firing on only random cylinders. Really really really deep and unnerving. I let it run for about 60 seconds checking for where the leak might be, and it was clear that the vacuum leak sound was originating from the vicinity of the upper intake manifold. Grabbed some carb cleaner and sprayed around a few spots, and while it was hard to tell with the rough idle, it sounded momentarily better when I shot down near the fuel injectors between the valve cover and the UIM.
So I shut it down and started removing things. Once the UIM was off, didn't take me long to see the problem:
Yup, that ring you see (placed there for the camera) was not in it's proper place at the base of injector #3, and injector #3 was only loosely pointing at the injection port. :shockeyes:
Fuel wasn't sprayed everywhere, and Hyde may be correct that the vacuum from the expanding cylinder was sufficient to pull the fuel vapor into the engine. Still going to re-check the electrical connectors.
So that is where I left it last night. Going to give it ~24hrs or so to depressurize the fuel system, and it was late and I need to get to bed anyway. Will get this corrected and put back together tonight after work.
After the back and forth with SMR about the O2 bung, I got the downpipe off, with most of the trouble coming from these two bolts. They are not only heavily rusted and clearly not meant for exhaust use, they aren't even metric! I ended up using a sledge to hammer a socket onto the nut side and got enough of a grip on the bolt side to get them free. They promptly went into the trash after this pic. Fortunately I have several sets of brand new metric exhaust bolts and nuts on hand, so replacing them was easy.
I then ran to the store for a 10mm hex key socket and got the O2 bung plug out, and then the WBO2 installed:
The plug itself:
Shortly after I took the above two pics, I decided that now was the best time to remove the factory NBO2 post-cat, and so did that, installing the plug in that location.
While re-installing the downpipe, I inadvertentently rubbed against the driver's front brake line, wiping away the dust to reveal a handy surprise!
Yup! The prior owner already installed SS brake lines. So I can sell the new set I have on the shelf.
The most nervous I have been so far during the install, wiring the WBO2 into the Hydra, but i got it done with none of the other wires pulling out and validated my points over and over. An annoyance was that the manual has the slots pictured from the perspective of the Hydra itself, not the plugs, so the numbered slots are mirrored in orientation.
The Hydra all plugged in, and a shot demonstrating how much other wiring I have there. This is going to be all nicely zip tied up and out of the way. For now though, the Hydra's wiring takes precedence, everything else can just get out of the way.
So I turned the key to on, connected the laptop, and started checking through the pre-startup stuff. Everything seemed good, except I missed the battery. It was low at 10.5v or so. No go on starting, so I disconnected the battery and put it on a charger for a couple hours. Went back out and after a ~10sec crank, no fire. Waited for about 5 minutes, poking through things, gave it another shot, this time firing up after about a 5sec crank.
Sounded awful! HUGE vacuum leak sound PSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHH loud enough my wife could hear it in the house along with the engine/exhaust note, unstable idle, and like a V8 was firing on only random cylinders. Really really really deep and unnerving. I let it run for about 60 seconds checking for where the leak might be, and it was clear that the vacuum leak sound was originating from the vicinity of the upper intake manifold. Grabbed some carb cleaner and sprayed around a few spots, and while it was hard to tell with the rough idle, it sounded momentarily better when I shot down near the fuel injectors between the valve cover and the UIM.
So I shut it down and started removing things. Once the UIM was off, didn't take me long to see the problem:
Yup, that ring you see (placed there for the camera) was not in it's proper place at the base of injector #3, and injector #3 was only loosely pointing at the injection port. :shockeyes:
Fuel wasn't sprayed everywhere, and Hyde may be correct that the vacuum from the expanding cylinder was sufficient to pull the fuel vapor into the engine. Still going to re-check the electrical connectors.
So that is where I left it last night. Going to give it ~24hrs or so to depressurize the fuel system, and it was late and I need to get to bed anyway. Will get this corrected and put back together tonight after work.
Everything back together, but my wife is using the laptop for her schoolwork at the moment, and it's probably too late for the neighbors to be pleased at my MSM exhaust rattling their dishes. Yeah, the deep bass tone sub 1,500rpm just reverberates through the walls, rattling the dishes in our hours and our immediate neighbors. ;D
I'll fire it up in the morning.
Some manifold pics while it was apart. Pretty clean for 47,000 miles if my 99 was anything to base it on.
Lower, still installed on the car:
And back on the ground, ready to fire in the morning:
I'll fire it up in the morning.
Some manifold pics while it was apart. Pretty clean for 47,000 miles if my 99 was anything to base it on.
Lower, still installed on the car:
And back on the ground, ready to fire in the morning:
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- 92 & 16 Meyatas
nice! whens the turbo going in?
Not until after my April 20-21 track event. There isn't enough time before then to get the install in, the bugs worked out, and get it tuned. As the "straightforward" Hydra install showed, I will probably be a week or more doing the turbo install.
Still, the base map is on the rich side since it's expecting the FM2 airflow, and it's set for 91 octane, giving me 2 points of octane safety room, and my tuner is going to check over the maps and the logs to make sure I don't have any engine safety problems for the track.
Still, the base map is on the rich side since it's expecting the FM2 airflow, and it's set for 91 octane, giving me 2 points of octane safety room, and my tuner is going to check over the maps and the logs to make sure I don't have any engine safety problems for the track.
Went back out for a drive, my wife monitoring the laptop data feed. Not going lean anywhere on throttle, which is good, although I only very briefly got into boost, and not at high RPM or high throttle.
I am probably safe to give it a romp, but "probably" doesn't really cut it for me. Edging into it patiently. I've got my normal commute tomorrow and the next day, and it will get much more time spent going through the paces.
I am probably safe to give it a romp, but "probably" doesn't really cut it for me. Edging into it patiently. I've got my normal commute tomorrow and the next day, and it will get much more time spent going through the paces.
Yeah, I figure the same thing.
Spent about 15 minutes this morning before leaving for work watching and logging the AFRs, and crept up to some higher load and boost levels. AFRs stayed in the high 12s and low 13s under boost, the whole way to redline. The logs showed a very momentary lean spike to the 15s right at the transition point from vacuum to boost, with load low, so that will be something to tune out.
45 minutes of the drive into work was perfect, everything smooth. Then I started misfiring. Periodic shudders through the car, tach flickering down a couple millimeters. The misfires increased in pace rapidly over the next couple miles, with the thickest frequency being nearly rapid fire in the -15 to -10 inches of vacuum range. I pulled over and shut off the engine, then powered it back up. Idled fine, 23 inches of vacuum on the gauge. Re-joined the highway, 30-60 seconds of smooth driving, then it suddenly felt like I lost all spark or fuel to one pair of cylinders. Clutch in idle, no load revs, under load, it was shuddering like crazy. I pulled over again, shut off the engine for about 2 minutes, fired it up, idled just fine, no-load reving was fine, and the remaining 10 minutes into work was misfire free.
Contacting FM for suggestions.
Possibilities in my head:
- Plugs fouled up from running rich
- WBO2 drifting out of calibration over time
The normal crank or cam angle sensor issues are possible, though I don't understand why they would get worse over time, then get better just because I cycled the power to them and the engine.
No time to address anything this morning, but I will be replacing the plugs before I drive home, and cleaning off the angle sensors to see if that helps any. (Carrying my tools and spares is handy
)
Spent about 15 minutes this morning before leaving for work watching and logging the AFRs, and crept up to some higher load and boost levels. AFRs stayed in the high 12s and low 13s under boost, the whole way to redline. The logs showed a very momentary lean spike to the 15s right at the transition point from vacuum to boost, with load low, so that will be something to tune out.
45 minutes of the drive into work was perfect, everything smooth. Then I started misfiring. Periodic shudders through the car, tach flickering down a couple millimeters. The misfires increased in pace rapidly over the next couple miles, with the thickest frequency being nearly rapid fire in the -15 to -10 inches of vacuum range. I pulled over and shut off the engine, then powered it back up. Idled fine, 23 inches of vacuum on the gauge. Re-joined the highway, 30-60 seconds of smooth driving, then it suddenly felt like I lost all spark or fuel to one pair of cylinders. Clutch in idle, no load revs, under load, it was shuddering like crazy. I pulled over again, shut off the engine for about 2 minutes, fired it up, idled just fine, no-load reving was fine, and the remaining 10 minutes into work was misfire free.
Contacting FM for suggestions.
Possibilities in my head:
- Plugs fouled up from running rich
- WBO2 drifting out of calibration over time
The normal crank or cam angle sensor issues are possible, though I don't understand why they would get worse over time, then get better just because I cycled the power to them and the engine.
No time to address anything this morning, but I will be replacing the plugs before I drive home, and cleaning off the angle sensors to see if that helps any. (Carrying my tools and spares is handy
)Plugs were fine, though the gap had widened to ~0.040, so I regapped them back down to ~0.028
Started misfiring again, about 30 minutes into the drive. I shut off and re-started and problem was gone. I got home and grapped the laptop and went for a drive, 30 minutes into the drive it started happening again. I pulled to the side and ran a data log of it. The Hydra is pulling timing like crazy, probably because it's showing hugely lean (16s 17s). I noticed the LED backlighting my boost gauge was oscillating in brightness rapidly while it was doing this. I powered off the engine without depowering the Hydra and started it back up, no change problem still existed. I powered off the engine AND the Hydra, restarted and the problem was gone. Same conditions, same tune ... the AFRs were now down in the 12s and 13s. Since the O2 works off voltage, and low voltage is lean, plus the LED brightness oscillation, I am guessing that this is some sort of voltage control problem.
Started misfiring again, about 30 minutes into the drive. I shut off and re-started and problem was gone. I got home and grapped the laptop and went for a drive, 30 minutes into the drive it started happening again. I pulled to the side and ran a data log of it. The Hydra is pulling timing like crazy, probably because it's showing hugely lean (16s 17s). I noticed the LED backlighting my boost gauge was oscillating in brightness rapidly while it was doing this. I powered off the engine without depowering the Hydra and started it back up, no change problem still existed. I powered off the engine AND the Hydra, restarted and the problem was gone. Same conditions, same tune ... the AFRs were now down in the 12s and 13s. Since the O2 works off voltage, and low voltage is lean, plus the LED brightness oscillation, I am guessing that this is some sort of voltage control problem.
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- 92 & 16 Meyatas
not sure it's related, but didn't you say you had a battery/voltage issue?
So I talked with FM, and Jeremy said that I am not the only one with this problem, and he believed it was a firmware change introduced that was only making changes for a specific other car (FR-S/BRZ likely) and it inadvertently affected the Miata. He sent me the last 8 firmware versions, with the oldest being the last one that made a Miata specific change. I rolled back to that oldest one and 1hr of driving with zero issues. Will be assisting FM to step forward 1 revision at a time until we pinpoint which revision introduced the problem.
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- 92 & 16 Meyatas
awesome that you at least know what it is now...i am surprised they didn't reach out to you?
