High HP with the FSDE

[03.5MSP]

To start off with Im just making this thread to gain more knowledge and information about our engines. This might have been covered in a previous thread or multiple threads, but i just wanted all the info in one place. Also I know the protege is not meant to be a 900 whp car or with some ridiculous amount of whp. So please don't flame and just add you knowledge and experience to this.

So my questions are: How come other aftermarket cars can make much higher HP than our cars? There are alot of 2.0L cars making alot more whp than us. Is is just the amount of money we have to spend or something else. I know our heads are not the best flowing and our cam profile is not really designed for 7k shifts and so on. So what other factors are keeping the FSDE from achieving the higher HP figures.

 

[JDM Sam]

Rods, PCM / ECU, Tranny, Turbo size

 

[kura808]

well for starters, the protege wasnt really a booming car in the compact car scene like civics, integras, wrxs, etc. because our cars werent that common on the streets. there was much more aftermarket support for these cars compared to the protege being that it was around for quite a long time. civics were getting tuned back in the late 80's. i guess mazda tried that wit the turbo 323 hatch but it didnt catch on well. i think only when the msp started coming out, our cars started getting more support in the aftermarket but it was only out for like 2 yrs so that wasnt much time to make more various mods. i mean look in a import car magazine, most of the advertisements are for civics, wrxs, and other common cars. u dont see much things for proteges right? if there is, its going to be more expensive because we are uncommon xD

o yea our internals are weak so we have a kinda fragile engine. dont do anything stupid by pumping up the boost to like super high psi or using nos xD our engines arent made for that haha

one more thing, our cars werent made for straightline speed, it was made for the twisties xD be happy that ya got one of the better handling cars ever made. if some1 talks smack, tell them that u want to race them in the twisties xP

 

[orng1]

Rods, PCM / ECU, Tranny, Turbo size

So pretty much everything? I have a few taken care of and a few on the works.

 

[03.5MSP]

Rods, PCM / ECU, Tranny, Turbo size

But for example even with a built motor, standalone, bigger turbo, and gtx gears, people cant seem to make 375-400 whp reliably.

I know the protege is not a drag car, but like stated, probably one of the best autoX cars you can get. And also very very fun to drive and unique.

 

[JDM Sam]

Kura808 is right about the aftermarket popularity of other cars. Mazda was not a popular make to modify when the tuning scene got big in the 90s. The RX7 FD3S was maybe the only car that Mazda made the aftermarket supported due to the platform being favorable for modding. Take a look at most high HP Hondas, they have a long list of mods to make that power and include the few things I mentioned above and below.

Theres a couple of things, not many people have even reached 375- 400. Also, not many people remember to address the other stuff that support the modifications for power. You are becoming the auto engineer when you are making a car produce 5x or more the power it was designed for. You want a race car, engineer your car like a race car.

Cooling system -
A 400 hp motor generates a lot more heat than a 200 hp motor. Stock oil cooler, radiator, fans, hoses, piping, etc. are not adequate. Does your intercooler size support the CFM needed for 400 hp? Many high HP Supras run hard pipes for their coolant pipes.

Fuel system -
AN fuel lines, pump, injectors, regulator, etc.
Fuel octane is another limiting factor.

Tuning/Standalone -
How many fully remapped their car with countless tuning hours on the road and fine tuning on the dyno by a professional that understands every aspect of EFI and has the tuning tools?

Ignition -
Who have you seen actually run aftermarket ignition coils?
You add more air and more fuel, but did you upgrade the spark?

If you want to make your car reliable for high power you have to redo and redesign everything to actually support it.

Let's use the Nissan Skyline Z-tune for example. It makes about 500 or so hp, but take a look at all the engineering behind it. The quality of the parts are second to none. Then look at the price tag. Look at other performance cars like the Z06. Same concept.

You want big power and reliability, prepare to open up your pocket book.

 

[LordWorm]

The biggest limitation from what i can see is the transmission. Engine has no problems (with the right treatment) making astronomical power, but getting that to the road is the number 1 problem.

GTXWGN appears to have had some success massaging a 4AGZE onto his BPT, replacing a G series box....something like that would help with driveline reliability and might allow people to unlock some more ponies without blowing transmissions up willy nilly

 

[orng1]

I get everything else but I'm stuck on the radiator hoses, why do they run metal hoses I just thought it was for looks but now I may be wrong. The cooling system doesn't have that much presure so what's the deal with those hoses?

 

[fr0st]

i don't think 350 hp on a FWD car is street usable.. some have 260 and it's barely usable..

 

[gearhead]

i don't think 350 hp on a FWD car is street usable.. some have 260 and it's barely usable..

I concur.... Hence, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOPYWx2MZU

I know this guy went forged, but I don't know how much boost he's runnin'! If my MSP can do this in a couple of years, I'd call it done

We all need to remember that big power is a waste if we can't put it to the ground effectively. I don't see myself rolling around on a set of slicks just so I can throw down a Mustang from light to light (braindead. I'd rather walk away from that Mustang going down a twisty road with plenty of motor to stay ahead on the straights. Not that I'd ever drive that fast on public roads (thought)

 

[JDM Sam]

Supras use it b/c the hose is long. Metal pipe won't collapse or get kinked say if the engine flexes or deteriorate over time. Not really going to be a big deal for us since we already have silicone rad hoses stock. I threw it out there as an example of engineering supporting mods on high hp cars.

 

[03.5MSP]

So with my setup which is still in work, what can i expect. I just want reliable power. Im not trying to drag race evos and stis.

Built block, GTX gears, Gt2871, 550cc injectors, perrin fmic, perrin fuel rail, PG intake mani, Custom 268/268 cams, ported head with 3angle valve job, better valve springs and retainers, 2.5 tbe with cutout after turbo, microtech lt10, microtech x4 ignitor box w/ bosch coils, awr rad, welded lsd, pissbily an upgraded oil and tranny cooler.

 

[crashkelly]

So with my setup which is still in work, what can i expect. I just want reliable power. Im not trying to drag race evos and stis.

Built block, GTX gears, Gt2871, 550cc injectors, perrin fmic, perrin fuel rail, PG intake mani, Custom 268/268 cams, ported head with 3angle valve job, better valve springs and retainers, 2.5 tbe with cutout after turbo, microtech lt10, microtech x4 ignitor box w/ bosch coils, awr rad, welded lsd, pissbily an upgraded oil and tranny cooler.

change the 2.5 TBE to a 3" for that much power and upgrade the 3 angle valve job port and polished head to a Kooldino 5 angle port and polish job.

With all that stuff and a good tun you are looking to be in the low 300 range I would guesstimate.

 

[kamon8404]

So with my setup which is still in work, what can i expect. I just want reliable power. Im not trying to drag race evos and stis.

Built block, GTX gears, Gt2871, 550cc injectors, perrin fmic, perrin fuel rail, PG intake mani, Custom 268/268 cams, ported head with 3angle valve job, better valve springs and retainers, 2.5 tbe with cutout after turbo, microtech lt10, microtech x4 ignitor box w/ bosch coils, awr rad, welded lsd, pissbily an upgraded oil and tranny cooler.

That sounds like its going to be a nice build ... what comp ratio did you plan on running?

 

[03.5MSP]

8.5:1 comp ratio, and my engine will more than likely be built by Dana, and he will be doing the head work, so I might even upgrade to the 5 angle.

 

[03.5MSP]

change the 2.5 TBE to a 3" for that much power and upgrade the 3 angle valve job port and polished head to a Kooldino 5 angle port and polish job.

With all that stuff and a good tun you are looking to be in the low 300 range I would guesstimate.

The only thing with a 3in tbe, is that there isnt really a a full 3in system. The ghl is 3" but the s-pipe is too restrictive. The vibrant isnt a full 3", so that dosent really a full 3' system. UNLESS Ken makes us that 3in exhaust, hint hint Ken.

 

[sandspeed]

So with my setup which is still in work, what can i expect. I just want reliable power. Im not trying to drag race evos and stis.

Built block, GTX gears, Gt2871, 550cc injectors, perrin fmic, perrin fuel rail, PG intake mani, Custom 268/268 cams, ported head with 3angle valve job, better valve springs and retainers, 2.5 tbe with cutout after turbo, microtech lt10, microtech x4 ignitor box w/ bosch coils, awr rad, welded lsd, pissbily an upgraded oil and tranny cooler.

It depends on how much boost you are going to push too. The 2871R is good for over 400whp, you might as well go big or go home. I would go with the 0.63 turbine a/r and use an external wastgate. Or go with the bigger 3071R for better topend and less boost.
I wouldn't worry about an upgraded oil cooler or tranny cooler, I would put more focus on setting a good tire/wheel/suspension combo for the street.

 

[03.5MSP]

It depends on how much boost you are going to push too. The 2871R is good for over 400whp, you might as well go big or go home. I would go with the 0.63 turbine a/r and use an external wastgate. Or go with the bigger 3071R for better topend and less boost.
I wouldn't worry about an upgraded oil cooler or tranny cooler, I would put more focus on setting a good tire/wheel/suspension combo for the street.

The only thing with a bigger turbo than the gt2871 is that it will rub/hit the block. But Im planing on getting my MAM exhaust mani changed around so i can run an external wastegate. The 3071 wont wont fit in the stock turbo location, so the downpipe and turbo would have to be relocated/ moved.

 

[sandspeed]

The only thing with a bigger turbo than the gt2871 is that it will rub/hit the block. But Im planing on getting my MAM exhaust mani changed around so i can run an external wastegate. The 3071 wont wont fit in the stock turbo location, so the downpipe and turbo would have to be relocated/ moved.

Oh werd.. yea I've welded an external wastegate to my mam manifold(bullhorn) and a dump tube on the downpipe. What type of mam manifold do you have, the msp manifold with the angled T2 flange?

 

[funktownp5]

I concur.... Hence, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOPYWx2MZU

I know this guy went forged, but I don't know how much boost he's runnin'! If my MSP can do this in a couple of years, I'd call it done

We all need to remember that big power is a waste if we can't put it to the ground effectively. I don't see myself rolling around on a set of slicks just so I can throw down a Mustang from light to light (braindead. I'd rather walk away from that Mustang going down a twisty road with plenty of motor to stay ahead on the straights. Not that I'd ever drive that fast on public roads (thought)

I say he is making closer to 275-280 WHP boostin 15 psi, very usable but

also he is reving higher also.