Familia323
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Droooollllllllll!!! Nice job! (drive) How long did it take you from start to finish? and did you run into any problems?
HIBoosted!! Installed Completely! And in Love.
- Thread starter YP5 Toronto
- Start date
Most MSP's are dyno'ing out at 145-150whp. Thats a nominal 12-15% drivetrain loss. I believe the p5 is rated much higher than the motor outputs. The 240whp should be around 275bhp. Still a lot of power, but 304 is a longshot, maybe if you had the WRX drivetrain 
Congrats on getting the kit up and running! Check your PM's when you get a chance.
Congrats on getting the kit up and running! Check your PM's when you get a chance.
Not to jack the thread, but shouldn't drivetrain loss be measured in units of power, eg. a 20 hp loss, as opposed to % of engine output?
If suddenly people start making 400 whp with the P5, is the drivetrain loss still going to be 18-20%?
I guess my question is why does drivetrain loss increase (in absolute hp numbers) with increasing engine output?
YP5, like I told you before on TOprotege.com, wicked car!!! If your car is holding up well in 2yrs and passing emission tests I'm definelty getting a HiBoost turbo.
If suddenly people start making 400 whp with the P5, is the drivetrain loss still going to be 18-20%?
I guess my question is why does drivetrain loss increase (in absolute hp numbers) with increasing engine output?
YP5, like I told you before on TOprotege.com, wicked car!!! If your car is holding up well in 2yrs and passing emission tests I'm definelty getting a HiBoost turbo.
jaman said:
Are you aware of your contradiction?
An engine will output a certain amount of torque throughout the entire powerband. This is then calculated into horsepower.
If you take a factory claim of 170HP, then dyno the car and come up with 150HP then you are seeing a percentage of power lost through the drivetrain. This is approximately 12%.
You can then apply your new coming results with the same formula to come up with a number that the car should be outputting at the crank.
Say you make 400HP on the dyno.... take 12% of that which is 48, and add that to your original dyno figure, coming up with 448HP at the engine.
As the power goes up, the loss is generally static, it will not exponentiate. This is why drivetrain loss increases with increasing engine output.
turboge said:
In the first example the drivetrain loss is 20HP and in the second it is 48HP, how is this static? So with 400whp the car loses 48HP to the drivetrain, shouldn't it still be the same 20HP (its still the same transmission, driveshafts, wheels, etc.)? Why is the engine output not calculated to be 420HP (400WHP + 20HP drivetrain loss).
If I'm contradicting myself, I appologize, but I really don't understand this.
Hold on... unless drivetrain loss is mostly as a result of overcoming rotational inertia, as opposed to friction, then I can kind of see why the drivetrain might "steal" more HP with increasing engine output (20HP vs 48HP).
jaman said:
12% of 170 = 20
12% of 400 = 48
In almost all mathematical calculations there is a constant, in this case, 12% is your constant . 12% is static.
Now this number will always vary due to illegitimate factory claims. But it is specific to your car, and your dyno, it is not going to be the same for everyone.
So you're saying when the car is going at 3000rpm and is generating say, 100hp, it uses 20hp just to overcome the drivetrain. And at 5500rpm it is generating say, 130hp, it uses 27hp to overcome the drivetrain?
I can see why that is confusing. But the fact is, it DOES take more hp to keep the drivetrain rotating at a higher rpm. So yes, it is the percentage that is the constant, not the hp.
Well done, Turboge.
I can see why that is confusing. But the fact is, it DOES take more hp to keep the drivetrain rotating at a higher rpm. So yes, it is the percentage that is the constant, not the hp.
Well done, Turboge.
A simple way to put it is to use the law of conservation of energy. If there are two identical rotating masses, the faster rotating mass has a higher kinetic energy so that means it had to have more energy put into it. Thus, at 3000rpm it only needs 20hp and at 5500rpm it needs a bit more...
Sorry to all the scientists if you take offense that I am mixing power and energy.
Sorry to all the scientists if you take offense that I am mixing power and energy.
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ddogg777 said:
I think I understand this concept. Hence I said earlier:
jaman said:
However, I think you're (that is ddogg777) confusing something. You're talking about a varying HP loss at varying rpm's, of course the loss is going to be different at different rpm's. My problem (read past) was with relating a changing whp measurement to drivetrain loss, hence engine hp. For example, 150WHP at 5500rpm and 400WHP at 5500rpm (so rpm's are taken out of the equation), same drivetrain, in one case the loss is 20hp and in the second 48hp (both 12%). That WAS my problem, all clear now.
Anyways, enough about this.
To keep this on track, way to go YP5!!!!!!!!!!
Riiiiiiight, Kusko's poison, the poison for Kusko, the poison made specifically to kill Kusko........that poison?jaman said:
Should've paid more attention.
Give me a Y, "Y!!", give me a P, "P!!", give me a 5, "5!!", what does that spell?
........................................................."yipfive!!!!"
damn, you guys jacked his thread quick.. lol
Congrats on the turbo, looking good.
Also bevis, you think his garage is bad, mine is the worst. My car barely fits, but at least it is protected. I cant even open my door more the 1 foot, it is a squeeze to get in an out.
Congrats on the turbo, looking good.
Also bevis, you think his garage is bad, mine is the worst. My car barely fits, but at least it is protected. I cant even open my door more the 1 foot, it is a squeeze to get in an out.
Doh...I got a bit scared...as my GF noticed as we pulled into my driveway that was was fresh oil on the ground....(SHE IS AWESOME for actually noticing that in the DARK)...
I went out and felt it....it was what I thought was definately oil... ran into the house..got out of my suit and went to work. The oil pan was good...the return fitting on the pan was dry... the oil line was dry and the return flange was good... I was stumped....
Then I noticed that I forgot to tightend to the banjo steering wheel thingy to spec...it was steering/brake fluid. I had meant to visit the shop manual at a later point to torque it properly. Torqued it to spec and cleaned up as much as I could....there is fluid on the belts now...so I will need to clean it up better in the morning.
But...with a full night of "spirited" driving...i have not yet seen any problems (outside of my mistake) everything is in order. The under car tempertures are unexpectidly very cool...I was expecting a lot more....the ceramic coating is a definate must for any kit...
I went out and felt it....it was what I thought was definately oil... ran into the house..got out of my suit and went to work. The oil pan was good...the return fitting on the pan was dry... the oil line was dry and the return flange was good... I was stumped....
Then I noticed that I forgot to tightend to the banjo steering wheel thingy to spec...it was steering/brake fluid. I had meant to visit the shop manual at a later point to torque it properly. Torqued it to spec and cleaned up as much as I could....there is fluid on the belts now...so I will need to clean it up better in the morning.
But...with a full night of "spirited" driving...i have not yet seen any problems (outside of my mistake) everything is in order. The under car tempertures are unexpectidly very cool...I was expecting a lot more....the ceramic coating is a definate must for any kit...
YP5 congrats!!! It looks sweet..I also like the location of your HID box in one of your pics.. I cant wait to feel the power of a turbo on the p5....
IM HAVING TURBO WITHDRAWL'S
IM HAVING TURBO WITHDRAWL'S
