Help please--my LSD blew...

[tallrd]

bump for my edit on previous post

 

[Focus]

OK here are pictures of what a Mazda open diff look like. This diff is from a protege. The other one looks very similar to the LSD diff.

 

[SergMSP]

disappointed in mazda....so then the whole time there was an "updated" lsd, it was really an open diff the whole time???

 

[Focus]

disappointed in mazda....so then the whole time there was an "updated" lsd, it was really an open diff the whole time???

Did you even bother reading the thread ?

 

[tallrd]

Requesting update from Ken to voice mails and previous post on getting the correct part to me.

 

[SergMSP]

Did you even bother reading the thread ?

i did, was just confused if this info relates to the "updated lsd" i read about a while ago...im guessing this is completely different..sorry

 

[msp35]

Did you receive the 03.5 lsd. it is different from the 03. IIRC the 03.5 didn't have some springs inside.....maybe this is causing all the confusion. in which case please delete this thread before anyone else has a hear attack.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

both edwin and i have been on the phones all morning to various dealers, Dealer Assistance Group and representatives with Mazdaspeed. They stress that the GSY1 part they are substituting is indeed a limited slip differential, not an open model. They have been using them as replacements for two months now with dealers and recieved no complaint. The reason for the change or supercession, right now no one is sure or no one is/can tell either of us. TheMAN has an GS01 and GSY1 coming in for side by side comparison. He was told they are definetely depleting the stock of the "revised" models in favor of these new ones. They were not able to tell us what the differences were or why the change was made. We're entertaining a few theories right now.

i have compared these pics to my own stock differential and asked Kooldino to compare them to knowledge of the open diff leftover from his car. he and i agree that although the internals of the first pic look weird, they are not representative of an open differential. the housing/carrier portion is a little different as well.

i will post more updates as they become available.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Did you receive the 03.5 lsd. it is different from the 03. IIRC the 03.5 didn't have some springs inside.....maybe this is causing all the confusion. in which case please delete this thread before anyone else has a hear attack.

the only units i have ever sent out are 2003.5

 

[msp35]

O, I See. Well I have bad resolution @ work. so can anyone tell if the spot welds are 'reinforced'?
Maybe mazda is gearing up for a recall on the MSP...doubt it but I can be optimistic right?

 

[Captain KRM P5]

spoke in some detail with Tallrd's mechanic. he says he has pulled both differentials apart. the broken msp one being replaced has the clutch and spring system within it. before disassembling the one shipped to Tallrd to replace it, two axles were placed inside it. they spin opposite of one another, which leads me to believe it is an open diff. pulling it apart, he says there is nothing inside but the gears - no mechanisms to lock both sides.

kicker of this is, so far mazda is claiming that it is in fact an LSD and that said axle rotation is normal. so its all come down to one side saying, it is, the other saying no its not.

 

[tallrd]

I don't think we're getting high enough on the Mazda ladder here. We have scientifically (and mechanically) proven that this is not an LSD, and unless the Mazdaspeed rep can prove to Mazdaspeed owners to the contrary, sorry, but I don't believe what they are feeding us.

They are still getting you the piece I ordered, and the one you intended to ship in the first place, correct?

spoke in some detail with Tallrd's mechanic. he says he has pulled both differentials apart. the broken msp one being replaced has the clutch and spring system within it. before disassembling the one shipped to Tallrd to replace it, two axles were placed inside it. they spin opposite of one another, which leads me to believe it is an open diff. pulling it apart, he says there is nothing inside but the gears - no mechanisms to lock both sides.

kicker of this is, so far mazda is claiming that it is in fact an LSD and that said axle rotation is normal. so its all come down to one side saying, it is, the other saying no its not.

 

[Focus]

spoke in some detail with Tallrd's mechanic. he says he has pulled both differentials apart. the broken msp one being replaced has the clutch and spring system within it. before disassembling the one shipped to Tallrd to replace it, two axles were placed inside it. they spin opposite of one another, which leads me to believe it is an open diff. pulling it apart, he says there is nothing inside but the gears - no mechanisms to lock both sides.

kicker of this is, so far mazda is claiming that it is in fact an LSD and that said axle rotation is normal. so its all come down to one side saying, it is, the other saying no its not.

Ummmm, that is what an LSD does...

BTW there are no clutches in a MSP diff, it's a Torsen...

 

[tallrd]

the stock OEM MSP LSD has a spring/clutch pack assembly. If you don't believe me you can look at the photo of the spring/clutch assembly in the photo of it I posted after it was removed from my car which previously contained it therein.

(as posted on other thread)

I just got off the phone with Ken; He got up on the ladder high enough to determine they are shipping 2:1 ratio Torsen diffs.


And just so you know I'm not just stirring a bees nest for the sake of drama:

A) Mazda shipped a different part from what we ordered.

B) looked exactly like my LSD minus the locking mechanisms inside.

C) my mechanic (who is experienced with both types of diff's) spins the wheel and only 1 spun. Being we were expecting the OEM 2003 LSD this would tend to lead one to believe they received a standard diff.

What this thread helps ALL of us gain is that you will not get a mechanically locking LSD if you order the OEM MSP replacement, but a Torsen style that at first will apear to be a standard diff.

I'm going to take a nap; christ.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Ummmm, that is what an LSD does...

some styles of them do not, older styles of LSD in particular. the OEM LSD did have a spring and clutch mechanism at one point, like certain year Miatas did.

I handed the new LSD to the master tech at the mazda dealer today and asked him to identify if it was or was not a limited slip differential. he had to look and play with it for several minutes before making the determination that it was indeed a limited slip, and he truly had a hard time making the determination. after pulling the service highlights manual and further inspection of the new diff, he came to the conclusion it is the Torsen style and very close if not identical to the one now being put in the RX-8.

which leaves us with the following LSDs for this car;
1) 2003 Tochigi Fuji - discontinued
2) 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Revised - discontinued
3) Revised Torsen Style, released 2006

that said, i was able to secure some of the last remaining (4) Mazdaspeed Revised for those that want them. If they all sell to members here, I'll consider a discount just to move them for Mazda. Two questions remain unanswered - why the dealer cannot force an order on the old stock despite it being there, and why the change was made to begin with.
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[mike_moss]

I was pointed to this thread as I don't regularly visit this forum.

After reading this thread, curiosity got the best of me and I checked stock on the GS01-27-190A. Stock #'s were low. I made a few calls and confirmed that GS01-27-190A has indeed been replaced by GSY1-27-190. I then decided to order the superceded part for two reasons - I have two vehicles I'll be putting this LSD into; I currently have the GS01-27-190A sitting on my shelf and didn't want to be stuck without an LSD for my other car. So I just recieved the GSY1-27-190 today and got them on the bench side by side. I spent about 30mins reviewing and comparing just about every area on both pieces. I have come to a conclusion that both LSD's do indeed work identically. The only differences are some numbers which are cast into the casing on both sides of the pinion gear. There are also different stampings in the casing on one side. I have no idea what these mean, but I'm leaning towards the fact that they probably just changed materials of the casing due to the overwhelming issues they've been having with these differentials.

I for one do not care that I've ordered another diff, since I needed one. But I think this thread is in need of a MAJOR cleanup and the urgency over this matter be toned down. There's no cause for panic, the differentials are the same and I trust Mazda has improved on the design/materials for the better. This was a lateral supercession and it's just been blown out of proportion.

 

[Kooldino]

Ummmm, that is what an LSD does...

An LSD (well, my quaife, at least) will turn both axles in the same direction. An OPEN diff, OTOH, will spin them in opposite direction.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

a person i spoke to at mazda yesterday echoes the different materials as well stating that the rivets used are now hardened.

regardless, i have a few diffs here of the old part number that need to be cleared out and i am willing to go lower on the price. if anyone wants one, give me a ring.

 

[tallrd]

...But I think this thread is in need of a MAJOR cleanup and the urgency over this matter be toned down. There's no cause for panic...

maybe you mean 'now that we know the conclusion there is no cause for panic' (?)

I agree that this required a lot of back and forth before coming to the conclusion that both diff's are LSD, but I think many people have/will benefit from not having to cover the same ground I had to. Therefore the info in this thread will prove very helpful. Many of us like cars but do not build transmissions.

Keep in mind what happened here:

A) Mazda shipped a different part from what we ordered without telling us.

B) it looked exactly like my LSD minus the locking mechanisms inside.

C) my mechanic (who is experienced with both types of diff's) spins the wheel and only 1 spun. Being we were expecting the OEM 2003 LSD with the same internal components this would lead one to believe they received a standard diff. There is no obvious appearance of helical gears inside the diff.

I think that given the ever-increasing size of the "blown LSD" list informing ppl that they will not get the duplicate of their original OEM MSP '03 LSD, but a Torsen style that at first will apear to be a standard diff is very useful indeed.

I don't think that's out of proportion.

 

[Kooldino]

a person i spoke to at mazda yesterday echoes the different materials as well stating that the rivets used are now hardened.

You mean the rivets that hold the diff to the ring gear?

You're telling me they weren't hardened before? I had to take them to a machine shop to get out the last time. Jesus.