Help petition the ban on HIDs.

[TheMAN]

how can those products not be sold at some point?

buying and installing an ebay intake and if it falls off because you were a dumbass for not following the instructions for proper installation, who's fault is that? YOURS

buying s*** from home depot MEANT FOR BUILDINGS and installing the s*** on your car and causes your car to catch on fire, fall off, or crash, who's fault is that? YOURS

PRODUCT MISUSE

 

[Mustard97]

well said

 

[b_real45]

lol this thread HAS turned useless.

The way I see it: It's easier to lift one ban instead of trying to ban 1000+ items. haha

The reason I posted this in the first place was because I thought it was rediculous to do a ban.. I thought that maybe there could be other ways to make it safer. But apparently, the DOT rules are very very strict.. so this cannot be done. I know this now. But I'm still wondering why they do not ban other items that can cause danger to people around us. I really don't see the ban as helping anything. I see that there will always be people out there that do things improperly and will end up causing destruction to others no matter what. This ban is plain useless to me. Get your OSRAM silverstars and aim your headlights higher than normal... people do this often to get the "HID effect" and it's just as dangerous.

 

[b_real45]

Yes, it is product misuse.. the point here is you have to control the people misusing products..

I understand that the product we're talking about is not designed properly in the first place.. hence why it is illegal and "unsafe." But, I've seen many cars with retrofits that do not blind others and are very effecient at providing more light.

 

[TheMAN]

so by your logic, why not ban everything since anything can kill? ban kitchen knives, hell even your beloved automobile

THIS is a perfect example of product misuse: http://darwinawards.com/slush/200303/pending20030328-050320.html

lol this thread HAS turned useless.

The way I see it: It's easier to lift one ban instead of trying to ban 1000+ items. haha

The reason I posted this in the first place was because I thought it was rediculous to do a ban.. I thought that maybe there could be other ways to make it safer. But apparently, the DOT rules are very very strict.. so this cannot be done. I know this now. But I'm still wondering why they do not ban other items that can cause danger to people around us. I really don't see the ban as helping anything. I see that there will always be people out there that do things improperly and will end up causing destruction to others no matter what. This ban is plain useless to me. Get your OSRAM silverstars and aim your headlights higher than normal... people do this often to get the "HID effect" and it's just as dangerous.

 

[TheMAN]

you still don't get it, do you? even if it doesn't blind others, you can't see properly yourself... I have explained before already that the amount of light in the field of light ALSO determines whether it is safe or not... by that I mean the light you're supposed to see, not light to others

Yes, it is product misuse.. the point here is you have to control the people misusing products..

I understand that the product we're talking about is not designed properly in the first place.. hence why it is illegal and "unsafe." But, I've seen many cars with retrofits that do not blind others and are very effecient at providing more light.

 

[b_real45]

No my point is you cant ban everything.. I agree that some things should be banned if they are absolutely causing lots of damage.

Your Firestone example.. yes ban. Can't go around it.. they just fall apart.

HID retrofit... why ban? Apparently if aimed lower, they do not blind people. Why not just have them aimed lower? Because there is a DOT guideline.. I understand now.

But why not lable retrofits as for "off-road use only." Not a ban? Let whoever buys them be responsible.

 

[b_real45]

you still don't get it, do you? even if it doesn't blind others, you can't see properly yourself... I have explained before already that the amount of light in the field of light ALSO determines whether it is safe or not... by that I mean the light you're supposed to see, not light to others

I've been in many cars with retrofit HIDs.. they are aimed so they do not blind on coming traffic.. yet they still provide more light (useable light) than stock headlights... the car hasn't become more dangerous to drive.. it hasn't created any spots where we could not see with the stock headlights.

 

[TheMAN]

did you read?

last page I already stated "off road use" is a misnomer

No my point is you cant ban everything.. I agree that some things should be banned if they are absolutely causing lots of damage.

Your Firestone example.. yes ban. Can't go around it.. they just fall apart.

HID retrofit... why ban? Apparently if aimed lower, they do not blind people. Why not just have them aimed lower? Because there is a DOT guideline.. I understand now.

But why not lable retrofits as for "off-road use only." Not a ban? Let whoever buys them be responsible.

 

[TheMAN]

that's nice

you trust your eyes too much... it has been proven MANY times that HID retrofits CAN cause lower than legal level of lights at certain LOCATIONS of the light field and excessive levels of light at other LOCATIONS of the light field... something ONLY proper equipment can detect and tell you about the light

and guess what? your eyes can't tell a damn difference! but when the time matters, you will find yourself in a lot of s***... ever heard of a thing called BACK GLARE? just because you don't glare others, doesn't mean you won't do it to yourself... I want you to drive in pea soup london-like fog WITH HID retrofits and tell me what you think

so in otherwords, you still haven't read what I said before

I've been in many cars with retrofit HIDs.. they are aimed so they do not blind on coming traffic.. yet they still provide more light (useable light) than stock headlights... the car hasn't become more dangerous to drive.. it hasn't created any spots where we could not see with the stock headlights.

 

[b_real45]

"off road use only" is NOT a valid exclusion from FMVSS 108 requirements and did not specify exclusions... "off road use only" is not a legally binding term and will not hold up in court... federal law requires that ALL automotive equipment regulated under NHTSA's "DOT" FMVSS requirements MUST be compliant before it maybe sold

Exactly.. I've read that.. so my problem would be with the laws.

 

[APEXistud]

Another thing that people can do is not look directly into the headlights of passing vehicles. That is taught to people in drivers ed as well. The only times I've ever had problems with vehicles equipped with HID's is when my stupid ass would occasionally glance into their headlights as I passed them. But hey who cares anyway, there's a lot of s*** that we do to ours cars that is already illegal and we can already get away with most of it.

 

[TheMAN]

"look away when you see another car" is a piss poor excuse... this is taught by AMERICAN drivers ed ONLY... this practice is NOT condoned or taught by European/Asian drivers ed/governments... just looking away justs asks to take the attention span 1 second away from the road that can lead to accidents... it is taught in Europe/Asia that you look straight ahead and NOT way over to oncoming traffic

this kind of practice is still condoned and deemed "OKAY" by American lawmakers because they feel that there should not be more glare control on headlights and if done so will take away road sign illumination... this is complete bulls*** of course because it has been proven quite well already that headlights with extreme glare control (European type) light up road signs just fine

this kind of s*** doesn't work quite well you see, animal instinct in us makes us want to look towards bright light (how many times have you caught yourself doing that? you're not a living being if you answered "none")... so you're screwed in the end anyway... European legislators listened to the scientific data and in turn mandated strict glare control because they knew this s*** would happen... people looking towards bright light instinctively... well not a lot of harm done if the headlights had that type of glare control, but the results can be disasterous with light that just goes everywhere (DOT lights)
so meanwhile, the "every man's for himself" practice is still unofficially condoned... hey lets drive with blinding lights so that WE can see and everyone else gets blinded! and everyone else can drive with blinding lights too so ALL of us can get blinded and not see ANYTHING and we can all crash into a big jumbled mess! If you want to see this chaos, PLEASE go to China... where everyone drives with highbeams at night

 

[70]

Because I feel it is unsafe to completely ban something while leaving other things unbanned.

This is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard...

 

[b_real45]

This is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard...

-MODS:
Recently washed, Grassroots Motorsports stickers,

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

 

[70]

-MODS:
Recently washed, Grassroots Motorsports stickers,

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

I'm glad I could entertain you...At least I have an understanding of how headlights work and why HID retrofit kits are crap.

I also have a thing called reading comprehension, which allowed me to understand exactly what "TheMAN" said in the beginning and knew that an argument that ensured, by you, was useless.

But, by all means, go ahead and stop that "all-out ban" because it is the right thing to do.

And, I'm still waiting for my after-market turbo to jump out of the hood and kill me.

 

[b_real45]

(lol)

You clearly like to jump on people and ridicule. What purpose was your post?

I posted because I clearly did not understand how strict DOT standards are. "TheMAN" cleared it up for me but I still had a problem with why it's a ban and not just labeled "off-road."

I understand that it's a "safety equipment" yet I don't understand why because it was poorly designed, that it should be banned. Do you know how many people have lost their eye or was severely injured when their airbags deployed? Do they ban airbags? No.

Anyhow, I now know why it is banned and I understand clearly the rules that play behind all this.

Maybe you should stop trying to dump on my posts (because this is not the first) and get a life. Maybe go buy some more GrassRoots stickers and slap them on your trailor home? Do anything but think you're the s***.. because aparently you're just a s***.

 

[70]

You "clearly" now exactly who I am...

Learn to take a little criticism, before you start comments like the one you posted...

And, you think I like ti rip on people? Your the one posting this kind of stuff:

Maybe you should stop trying to dump on my posts (because this is not the first) and get a life. Maybe go buy some more GrassRoots stickers and slap them on your trailor home?

I am glad, however, that you have learned something from this thread about why HID retrofit kits were banned in the first place.

 

[kcbhiw]

b_real45,

It's not necessarily that the halogen headlamp housings are poorly designed, it's the fact that they were designed to work ONLY with halogen lamps. Not only is the LCL (light center length) different between the halogen and HID lamps, but the orientation of the actual light source is different resulting in a misalignment with the reflective surfaces/elements within the headlight housing.


You obviously have much research to do in this area.


Your argument of "unbanning" one thing because you can't have 1000 other things banned doesn't hold water and is outright rediculous.


Lastly, to nitpick, if you are planning to submit a petition, you're going to need a lot more than 5 one or two lined paragraphs. You'll need to provide definitive PROOF to back your claim and argument. It all comes back down to the research thing (funny how that works).

 

[b_real45]

b_real45,

It's not necessarily that the halogen headlamp housings are poorly designed, it's the fact that they were designed to work ONLY with halogen lamps. Not only is the LCL (light center length) different between the halogen and HID lamps, but the orientation of the actual light source is different resulting in a misalignment with the reflective surfaces/elements within the headlight housing.


You obviously have much research to do in this area.


Your argument of "unbanning" one thing because you can't have 1000 other things banned doesn't hold water and is outright rediculous.


Lastly, to nitpick, if you are planning to submit a petition, you're going to need a lot more than 5 one or two lined paragraphs. You'll need to provide definitive PROOF to back your claim and argument. It all comes back down to the research thing (funny how that works).

1.) I never said the housing is poorly designed. The whole "HID kit" is a poor design. They need to design it with a full housing that can spread the correct beam pattern.

2.) Yes that line was ridiculous. At that point I wasn't trying to be serious.. I am pointing out how ridiculous the whole thread is.

3.) To nitpik, I didn't submit a petition.. the petition was submitted/started by someone else and at the time already had 3+ thousand signatures.

4.) I have been doing research and I usually do research before I do something. The thing is that I feel like there shouldn't be a ban on it. I feel that it should be the owner's/user's discretion.. I actually feel that HID retrofits can provide more light without causing damage to people.. even though it is not "DOT approved." That is just my opinion from my own experiences. K thanks.