gun locks fail

[sam1]

Quote:

I will not, however, provide my child with a loaded weapon for s/he to have access to whenever they may choose to use it. Beyond them hurting themselves, what happens if they decide to grab my gun to take care of a bully, rob someone, or just plain shoot up a school? Again, I'd hope as a parent I'd instill better judgment/decision making skills in my child but at the end of the day a hormone driven teenager is going to make their own choices...having access to an unlocked, loaded weapon will not be in the cards


Again, this sounds like bad parenting. I was a 'hormone driven teenager' with access to a multitude of loaded firearms, and none of this nonsense ever crossed my mind.

 

[kickniteasy]

As was I....however, it's way too easy to blame bad parenting. At the end of the day, while there are numerous "bad" parents out there some people, regardless of how much their parents tried or what they've done, will still grow up and decide to make poor choices. I deal with students constantly whose parents try their butts off, keep up with their children's homework/classwork, have tried to instill a sense of academic responsibility, have provided them with materials, and worked with the school in every way possible to help their children and the kids still decide that they're not going to do their work and end up failing the class. Good parenting does not equal good child, period. If not your child, then the what about the kid that your child brings over and finds out about the gun? Again, for me it boils down to the percentage of something wrong happening being much greater than me needing that gun 1 second sooner or my child needing access to the gun.

I will say though that I disagree with the law and feel like if someone wants to leave their gun unlocked in their house with their children it's their business. I do not, however, think that article demonstrates a valid reason for it "gun shouldn't be locked so your child can save you and your family". I disagree with the law, in a nutshell, on the grounds of it invading into someone's personal choice on how they want their household run.

 

[mckraut]

Quote:

I will not, however, provide my child with a loaded weapon for s/he to have access to whenever they may choose to use it. Beyond them hurting themselves, what happens if they decide to grab my gun to take care of a bully, rob someone, or just plain shoot up a school? Again, I'd hope as a parent I'd instill better judgment/decision making skills in my child but at the end of the day a hormone driven teenager is going to make their own choices...having access to an unlocked, loaded weapon will not be in the cards


Again, this sounds like bad parenting. I was a 'hormone driven teenager' with access to a multitude of loaded firearms, and none of this nonsense ever crossed my mind.

Agreed. kickn, you're going to the be parent that's surprised when their 14 year old daughter comes home pregnant because you never had the sex talk with her and covered protection.

Before this goes any further, I am not arguing to say that you shouldn't lock up your guns, that's your own business. What I am saying is that education is needed at home.

 

[AWDTerror]

The issue isn't pcp using druggies or bad drivers.

Also the issue of the original 'report' specifically addresses California's mandatory gun lock law. So my guess is it is a stab at their gun control laws, seeing that California is mention and compared numerous times as well.

Can a 10 year old go out and buy a gun? No? And why's that....because the law, and society at large, has deemed that a 10 year old isn't competent/responsible enough to own a firearm and make the decisions that come along with that responsibility. Just because a child...and I stress child...has been educated on gun safety does not mean they won't make a stupid decision. It's not blaming the gun, it's realizing that the law is put in place to protect a child.And that phrase "It's for the children." is on every pamphlet that I have seen for the Brady Group and other gun control group. The federal legal age to own a handgun is 21, and most states you have to be 21 to drink, because society at large has deemed that people under 21 aren't competent/responsible enough. So why do we have 18y/o fighting overseas?

I'm saying NO ONE can predict how they'd act in a moment of extreme emotional stress unless they're in the moment. I will say that I, as an adult, have a greater ability to control my emotions and process data in a moment of extreme emotion than the vast majority of 14 year old girls. As a teacher I'm going off of personal experience, not guess workSo from experience in a crisis situation involving an active shooting or firefight, you've never hit anything other than the attacker?

Again, who knows? However, it's beside the point. My point is any number of things could have happened that would result in that little girl not walking around to tell her story today if she access to that gun, it wouldn't be her saving grace necessarily.Your right, but we are basing this off the information given from the O.P. The attacker could have tripped over the pitchfork and off'd himself. But, then we would just be playing the 'what if' game.

I'm not sure how you came to this question. Because your whole post was nothing but one big contradiction.At no time did I say or even hint that I would, in a life threatening home invasion situation, not fight back. That'd be the point of owning the gun to begin with, to give myself that option. I will not, however, provide my child with a loaded weapon for s/he to have access to whenever they may choose to use it. You say that you have a gun in "easy access". Why even lock it at all? I bet a 4 y/o can unlock it in less than 30secsBeyond them hurting themselves, what happens if they decide to grab my gun to take care of a bully, rob someone, or just plain shoot up a school? Again, education and parental involvement. If this is the stuff that your worried about your kid doing, then maybe you need to put down the damn game boy, turn the T.V. off and talk with your kid and be more involved in their life.Again, I'd hope as a parent I'd instill better judgment/decision making skills in my child but at the end of the day a hormone driven teenager is going to make their own choices...having access to an unlocked, loaded weapon will not be in the cards.YOU "hope"?! As a good parent you should know. A firearm won't make a difference, if your postings above reveal anything about yourself as a parent, is that it won't matter if your child will have access to a firearm or not, they will just substitute if for something else, knife, bat, etc.

 

[AWDTerror]

As was I....however, it's way too easy to blame bad parenting. At the end of the day, while there are numerous "bad" parents out there some people, regardless of how much their parents tried or what they've done, will still grow up and decide to make poor choices. I deal with students constantly whose parents try their butts off, keep up with their children's homework/classwork, have tried to instill a sense of academic responsibility, have provided them with materials, and worked with the school in every way possible to help their children and the kids still decide that they're not going to do their work and end up failing the class. Good parenting does not equal good child, period. Just because they try to instill academic responsibility means nothing, failure to instill common sense and life skills is what leads to 'bad' kids. If not your child, then the what about the kid that your child brings over and finds out about the gun? Again, for me it boils down to the percentage of something wrong happening being much greater than me needing that gun 1 second sooner or my child needing access to the gun.Then you need to sell your gun and stick your head in the sand, your nothing more than a 'sheep'. You as an individual will cause more harm to mankind and Pro-2A agendas with a firearm than without.

I will say though that I disagree with the law and feel like if someone wants to leave their gun unlocked in their house with their children it's their business. You keep your firearm fairly unsecured, again contradictory and hypocritical. I do not, however, think that article demonstrates a valid reason for it "gun shouldn't be locked so your child can save you and your family". I disagree with the law, in a nutshell, on the grounds of it invading into someone's personal choice on how they want their household run.

 

[kickniteasy]

Fair enough AWD, have fun with your conversation with yourself. These types of things are much better when ideas can float both ways, not just you sending a tital wave one direction and not being able to receive, or even consider, a point of view different than your own. I won't bother banging my head against the wall anymore with you.

 

[AWDTerror]

Fair enough AWD, have fun with your conversation with yourself. Myself? Looks like there are plenty of people having conversation in here. Also I'm not the only one criticizing you, a few others are as well. These types of things are much better when ideas can float both ways, not just you sending a tital wave one direction and not being able to receive, or even consider, a point of view different than your own. I've considered your point of view, rejected it and substituted my own. You express your opinions and I simply countered them with my opinion. I cannot help that fact that your opinions are not shared with the rest of the group. I won't bother banging my head against the wall anymore with you.Sorry not my concern, I think your alone in the head banging.

 

[sam1]

As was I....however, it's way too easy to blame bad parenting. At the end of the day, while there are numerous "bad" parents out there some people, regardless of how much their parents tried or what they've done, will still grow up and decide to make poor choices. I deal with students constantly whose parents try their butts off, keep up with their children's homework/classwork, have tried to instill a sense of academic responsibility, have provided them with materials, and worked with the school in every way possible to help their children and the kids still decide that they're not going to do their work and end up failing the class. Good parenting does not equal good child, period. If not your child, then the what about the kid that your child brings over and finds out about the gun? Again, for me it boils down to the percentage of something wrong happening being much greater than me needing that gun 1 second sooner or my child needing access to the gun.

I will say though that I disagree with the law and feel like if someone wants to leave their gun unlocked in their house with their children it's their business. I do not, however, think that article demonstrates a valid reason for it "gun shouldn't be locked so your child can save you and your family". I disagree with the law, in a nutshell, on the grounds of it invading into someone's personal choice on how they want their household run.

While I can see your point of view and agree with some of these points, I have to disagree with the majority of them. Sending your child off to school and helping with homework does not make a 'good parent'. A good parent, again imo, is one who helps their child develop and grow, teaches them life skills, values and common sense, and pushes them toward greater goals so that they can be successful in their adulthood. By the time you're helping your child with homework, they already have their own personality and personal values. These things are not taught 'per se' but formed throughout their life. My son would much rather go hiking or play with legos than watch tv (unless spongebob is involved, lol). Thats my own personal values that he has picked up during his lifetime thus far. Soon he will be forming more and different values as he continues on his life journey, but the values learned during the first several years stay for life. That's why I try to teach him more and more, push him to go farther to reach bigger and better goals. That's also why I teach him firearm safety so young. So in my opinion, good parents DO make good kids.

Now back to gun control...if more kids were raised in an environment where guns are nothing more than tools, we wouldn't have this problem. Guns are inanimate. The gun is not the bad guy, it's not evil, it's not waiting around the corner to get you. These are human traits. Bad kids, if you will.

 

[bgibb68]

everything aside.....all the laws that states and gov are throwing around is just gonna make things harder on the people who abide by the law and try to play fair......i doubt if the common criminal will ever play fair or by the law unless it's to their advantage.

 

[sam1]

Fair enough AWD, have fun with your conversation with yourself. These types of things are much better when ideas can float both ways, not just you sending a tital wave one direction and not being able to receive, or even consider, a point of view different than your own. I won't bother banging my head against the wall anymore with you.

No need to get your panties in a twist. I'm actually ejoying this little conversation. I'm always intrigued to hear the arguments for gun control, because I am obviously not for the same type of 'gun control' as it seems much of society is.

 

[sam1]

everything aside.....all the laws that states and gov are throwing around is just gonna make things harder on the people who abide by the law and try to play fair......i doubt if the common criminal will ever play fair or by the law unless it's to their advantage.

Obviously not, as that is what makes them a criminal. I am for the most part a law abiding citizen. I carry a firearm occasionally, and have a concealed weapon permit to do so. But how many people carry without a ccw permit? Would it make any difference to them if somewhere is posted 'no guns' as it does to me? Probably not...seeing as they are already breaking the law by carrying a concealed weapon. It only limits people that do abide by the rules, as you said. This is why I am for the most part anti gun-control, because the type of 'control' people are suggesting and promoting is simply ridiculous. You want better gun control, we need better criminal control. Better enforcement of current laws, instead of a multitude of new laws that only make criminals out of people who were once law abiding.

 

[martispeed]

Simply, the main focus should be gun safty, not gun control. Children and adults for that matter need to be tought what firearms are all about, how they work, and how to RESPECT them...

 

[AWDTerror]

everything aside.....all the laws that states and gov are throwing around is just gonna make things harder on the people who abide by the law and try to play fair......i doubt if the common criminal will ever play fair or by the law unless it's to their advantage.

Exactly, criminals are criminals for a reason. This is why every gun control act or law is nothing more than a "feel good" political move.

 

[AWDTerror]

I'm always intrigued to hear the arguments for gun control, because I am obviously not for the same type of 'gun control' as it seems much of society is.

It seems today though, thankfully more and more people are leaning to your form of 'gun control'.

 

[AWDTerror]

Obviously not, as that is what makes them a criminal. I am for the most part a law abiding citizen. I carry a firearm occasionally, and have a concealed weapon permit to do so. But how many people carry without a ccw permit? Would it make any difference to them if somewhere is posted 'no guns' as it does to me? Look at the states of Vermont, Alaska, Montana, etc. No CCW needed. That is a criminal deterrent in itself. Because you never know if the person your robbing has a gun or not. Probably not...seeing as they are already breaking the law by carrying a concealed weapon. It only limits people that do abide by the rules, as you said. This is why I am for the most part anti gun-control, because the type of 'control' people are suggesting and promoting is simply ridiculous. You want better gun control, we need better criminal control. Better enforcement of current laws, instead of a multitude of new laws that only make criminals out of people who were once law abiding.

 

[sam1]

Simply, the main focus should be gun safty, not gun control. Children and adults for that matter need to be tought what firearms are all about, how they work, and how to RESPECT them...

This is fantastic! Gun safety, not gun control. Good choice of words. Gun control to me is being steady enough to be able to pick off that pop can at 150 yards. Gun safety is just that...safety, with a little common sense added in.

What we need is criminal control. Current laws need to be enforced, with more emphasis on people that are actually dangerous to society, rather than the guy going 32 in a 25, and someone who likes to smoke a little green in his backyard with friends. People that are out there cooking up meth in their sheds, or commiting armed robbery (uh oh, here come the guns again), or politicians (haha j/k on this one...mostly) are the ones that need to be 'controlled'

 

[88323GT]

I too stand behind AWD's point on this. Education is the biggest problem this situation faces, and instead of encoraging education of gun safety, they put more and more limits on the matter. 100 years ago, I bet you anything, you couldnt throw a stone across the street and not hit a 13 year old who has been properly trained to handle a gun/shotgun/etc. Now days, everybody runs or jumps when you throw the stone. Its not bad parenting bringing a child up with the knowledge and know how to use and fire a firearm. This knowledge can and/or will save their life, or even the lives around them. I was brought up and learned all about firearms at a young age. I have the fullest respect for them, and outside of recreation, dont even touch them unless My life, or my loved ones are in danger. They are a tool, and like any tool, require reading the instructions and fine print.
After reading alot of points, you can go on and on doing the "What If" thing, but it really comes down to those final seconds you know your life is in danger, and you know there is a gun you have access to. Would you use it, or doubt yourself?

My children WILL get a full on course in Gun Saftey and Control. And by control, I mean using both hands to control the firearm. I would much rather my kids fear the weapon and stay away from it, but at the same time have access to it in the event they need to protect themselfs, then have it completely locked down. In those cases, its a race against your own life. Would you rather be fighting a combo lock, and have to load the weapon while there is some asshole in your house raping a loved one, or would you rather open a drawer and kill the SOB before he can portray harm? It may sound harsh, but in todays society, they are letting known sex offenders and even murderers back on the streets becuase the county cant afford to keep them in prison. you know how many are arrested becuase they repeat their offence? Yeah, its that bad. If they are in your house damaging your property or hurting loved ones, shoot to kill. This ensures they will never see the streets again.

 

[martispeed]

+ way to large of a number to type haha, but that this is exactly how I feel. Education education education...

 

[judman13]

I have no researched evidence to back this up so don't completely flame me if it is incorrect.

But I remember hearing that in Switzerland, I believe, that every household is issued a rifle and trained how to use it by the government. Now I am the first to advocate the removal of bureaucratic intervention in everyday life, but in this case it seems to have worked because (once again IIRC) Switzerland has one of the lowest gun related crime rates in the world.

The reason because everyone know that everyone else know how to use a gun and therefore can protect themselves, their family and their property!!

Tell me that education isn't the key to keeping crime and other gun related cases under control and we need to have a serious discussion.

 

[88323GT]

^Agreed