Gt3071 vs 50 trim vs etc.

[Totmacher]

LOL Driver, actually I agree with you completely on everything except 1 thing.

I agree, with the MS3 and this being a "uncharted" endeavor, I would stick to a smaller AR on the turbine. 50 trim with a .63 or Smaller AR depending on the boost you want to run. I don't think this is going to be a race gas or dyno queen project so again a larger AR which would require higher boost or race gas is out of the question. I've actually never done a .48 Turbine AR so i really can't comment on that, my guess is that would be a 18-20psi turbo. I just feel scared your now choking up the compressor side. But again, I've never tested it.

As for the 30R making 500+ I've tuned quite a few SR-4's to 500+ with and without a EMS. All it takes is a 3076, 28-30psi and some good race gas. 3076 is definitely more a drag race + race gas turbo over the standard 50 trim (.63AR turbine).

My only disagreement with you Driver is the DBB. I've dyno tuned probably close to 75 SRT-4's on 50 trims and never have I seen a benefit to the DBB. Call up Borg warner/Bullseye and ask them about DBB.... It's a thing of the past, it's purpose was for UPS trucks.

On that note Borg Warner is definitely the "quiet" leader right now in the turbo market. Hop on Honda-tech and you'll find out that probably 75% of the NHRA/NOPI SFWD/Turbo Street Drivers will be running BW turbo's in 08.

By the way any MS3's going to compete this year? (Sorry had to throw that out there...

Another option is the GTK turbo's We just tuned a GTK 550 the other week and had some extremely impressive results from it (505hp on 22psi and 93 octane. Limited by walbro 255 fuel pump)


Some pics of my manifold because I just finished it and feel like showing off lol...

 

[Totmacher]

LOL Spell check on "MS3's" recomends "Miss's"

 

[Haltech]

Normally Im the king of the one liners, but that picture leaves me speechless.

Haltech...You know your stuff. Whats your say on the turbo?

BTW...on the atp thread here...there was a guy posting a response from atp. Supposedly they'll have speed3 specific kit available by the end of Feb. Thats tempting to just wait it out for that. Ive got to wait for the manifold anyway.

Anybody else confirmed that with them?

Pale, i would go with the 2871 myself... BUT.. it could just be the beer talkin!

 

[trufanatic]

my input:

2871 or a regular 50trim would be perferct for the ms3/6

DBB on a 50 is an expensive waste, coming from the srt community and driver i see you over there alot the DBB on the srt only yields 150-300rpm difference on spoolup depending on application. its not worth the price difference.

As terrible as our power band is.. only making any real power to about 5500rpms, the GT30 is a waste. it might spool fairly quick but we dont have the rpm range to actually get into that turbo's real efficiency, maybe if we could handle a 7k redline but not with this displacement....maybe

I was going to share this with everyone the other day but forgot, since the topic is here this might be a good time as any. I emailed DNP and asked if i could get their manifold and instead of it having the KO4 flange, asked to get a t3 flange instead...they said no but either way if you are as impatient as i am, get their mani, unweld and re-tig weld a t3 flange and purchase yourself a t3/t4 50trim hybrid with a 5-bolt flange on the hotside to accomodate the stock or an aftermarket downpipe and presto you just made yourself a 50 trim turbo kit for around a thousand bucks. Any thoughts on my dr. evil brainstorm? i was planning to do this over the summer unless or vendors hurry up and release a turbo upgrade, either way im ditching the stock exhaust manifold.

 

[SpdFreak]

Subscribed.

 

[redspeed]

Interesting, subing.

 

[palerider]

My only disagreement with you Driver is the DBB. I've dyno tuned probably close to 75 SRT-4's on 50 trims and never have I seen a benefit to the DBB. Call up Borg warner/Bullseye and ask them about DBB.... It's a thing of the past, it's purpose was for UPS trucks.

On that note Borg Warner is definitely the "quiet" leader right now in the turbo market. Hop on Honda-tech and you'll find out that probably 75% of the NHRA/NOPI SFWD/Turbo Street Drivers will be running BW turbo's in 08.

lol...what a nice surprise James!!!

So Im tempted after this post to almost go back to your proposal the other night and see what you guys could do with the stock turbo at dcr. If I got a stocker(that doesnt leak oil).... and let you all do your magic. Then brought the manifold I have coming so you could maybe goof around with that...hmmmm.

And btw... tread lightly over here. We all still think 400hp is the holy grail...lol Youre not allowed to compare cars or this is gonna turn into a flame war we wont win. That is of course unless...you want to bring up interiors and how much better looking our cars are

 

[Totmacher]

You have seen my interior....

 

[Totmacher]

And i haven't even seen 150rpm faster spool on a DBB 50 trim.

You want faster spool? take that extra money you would have spent on the DBB option and put it into a 35 wet shot.

 

[palerider]

You have seen my interior....

yeah...it doesnt weigh much...lol

 

[palerider]

james check your pms on caliberforums...what do you think of the PG manifold. And keep it private if youre not gonna rave...lol

 

[Dream]

There is a guy here locally that just made 505whp on a sr20 with only 25psi. It will do it easy. Im talking about srts in the previous post. s*** I see evos hitting 500whp on 3076rs all the time. WHERE U BEEN, thats like old s***. Dsm are hitting 550whp on 50trims and your saying a 3076r wont do it. LOL

Where did I say it wont do it? I just asked, dont be a douche bag.

 

[driver311]

Where did I say it wont do it? I just asked, dont be a douche bag.

Dont ask stupid questions and I wont make you feel like a douch bag! Deal?

 

[driver311]

And i haven't even seen 150rpm faster spool on a DBB 50 trim.

You want faster spool? take that extra money you would have spent on the DBB option and put it into a 35 wet shot.

the turbo that I have put on the last two srts was the standard 50trim with .48 back half. spooled fully by 3100 rpms which is damn good for an srt and made 460whp on 25psi. On pump gas 21psi it made 425whp. The turbo is a an absolute monster on the srt. My guess is it will be the same on the ms3. The powerband on this back half crushes the .63. Making 20-40whp more through the bottom end and still peaking for power at the same spot the .63 does. Up around 6k.

Srt4101 on the forums has a 480whp @28psi .63 back half 50trim setup. Very fast. I raced him from a 40 roll with this .48 car on 24psi. Guess what It was neck and neck. He was blown away. The curve is that good. Making 30whp less peak and it still was neck and neck.

Ps. The dbb 50trim has been hype up on the forums though I can say I have never done one. Next week i will be installing my first one. Ill let everyone know my thoughts. Again my vote goes for the 50trim .48 back half, or 2871r, depending on what power level you want.

 

[Rainman]

This is an excellent and very informative discussion. Lets not let this deteriorate into any name-calling. I would be disappointed to see this thread get closed for that reason.

R

 

[Darksun280]

Dont ask stupid questions and I wont make you feel like a douch bag! Deal?(fuoops)

Play nice you two.......

 

[SpdFreak]

the turbo that I have put on the last two srts was the standard 50trim with .48 back half. spooled fully by 3100 rpms which is damn good for an srt and made 460whp on 25psi. On pump gas 21psi it made 425whp. The turbo is a an absolute monster on the srt. My guess is it will be the same on the ms3. The powerband on this back half crushes the .63. Making 20-40whp more through the bottom end and still peaking for power at the same spot the .63 does. Up around 6k.

Srt4101 on the forums has a 480whp @28psi .63 back half 50trim setup. Very fast. I raced him from a 40 roll with this .48 car on 24psi. Guess what It was neck and neck. He was blown away. The curve is that good. Making 30whp less peak and it still was neck and neck.

Ps. The dbb 50trim has been hype up on the forums though I can say I have never done one. Next week i will be installing my first one. Ill let everyone know my thoughts. Again my vote goes for the 50trim .48 back half, or 2871r, depending on what power level you want.

I sort of agree with driver. From my little knolage about the 50 trim and the like, the .48 is a good turbo for a daily driver. In the debate between .63 and .48 back half, it some what boils down to if you want higher dyno numbers or better spool up for a daily driver, and with the right setup, they can be pretty much even like driver said about the two srt's he raced.

 

[driver311]

I sort of agree with driver. From my little knolage about the 50 trim and the like, the .48 is a good turbo for a daily driver. In the debate between .63 and .48 back half, it some what boils down to if you want higher dyno numbers or better spool up for a daily driver, and with the right setup, they can be pretty much even like driver said about the two srt's he raced.

The real point I was trying to make was that the .48 will be a much more powerful and fun turbo below 26psi. GUARANTEED!

 

[northmiler89]

Why do you guys want to run a gt30 on the ms3? It is prodominitally a awd turbo.. I mean, it will be nice for you guys that are draging your cars and are on slicks.. But with the power it makes down low, you are just going to roast your tires with rcomps or any street tire. A turbo that makes nice power down low and spools quickly is great for AWD but its going to suck on our lightweight FF car..

ATP has stopped selling the gt3071 and 3076 on the ms3 for this exact reason and only offer them for the ms6 on their site.

I think a great turbo for our cars would be a gt35r.. Later spool but still makes great power. Just not at 3000rpm where we will be spinning through ever gear. We have enough wheelspin problems with the k04 which was originially put on this motor to spool down low for the awd ms6..

I am planning on running a gt3582R VERY soon, I am just having trouble finding info about it and if there is even enough room for it back there :mad:

 

[driver311]

Northmiller your car is gonna be a slug with that big of a turbo. Full spool on that will be around 5k. LOL I think your in over your head. Go ahead and do it and I will be here waiting for your posts on why your car gets beat by stock turbo ms3's.

ps. a gt30r will not spool fast on this car either. Im guessing 4000-4300rpms easily. I think you need to do a little more research on your turbo selection.

Just an FYI. A gt35r wants to be ran at higher rpms and boost levels. Good luck with that one.