Hey this is a great forum and as I previously posted before I want an MSP to use it for D stock autocross. I initially looked at purchasing an MSP around three years ago when they were being discounted on the lots. I have been looking for that past few weeks while my other car is being sold. Sites include craigslist, Ebay, cars.com, autotrader.com, automart.com, facebook.com. I find the pricing of these cars to be quite strange here are some of the examples for pricing that I have found. Some of the prices I found just defy logic take a look below.
500 miles of 02215
Cars.com
03.5 Stock 53k for 14k obo Private Seller gray Too High
03.5 Stock 62k for 10.9k Dealer Yellow Getting Better
03 stock 96k for 11k Dealer black CRAZY!
300 miles of 02215
Autotrader
03.5 30k for 15k Dealer gray Again very very high
I also emailed a dealership that had an 03.5MSP with 62,000 miles for $16,000 (Very high I know but I wanted to test the waters to see what I could knock the price down to online). So I have copied the message please let me know if I was wrong in the exchange with the used car manager I think the car still has two or three grand to knock off the price
Car specs: 03.5 62,000 miles asking 16,000
This was sent through cars.com a small write up. I wanted to push buttons and see how firm they were on the price.
Me:
I currently live 140 miles away. I have been calling dealerships inquiring
about pricing and their current flexibility since I would hate to take the long
drive and waste our time. I believe this to be more of a $9,000-$10,000 car based on realworld dealer numbers.
Dealership response:
Hi Ryan, my name is Mr. Blank and I'm the preowned manager here at Blank Blank Ford. This Mazda Protg is a MazdaSpeed and has a Kelly Blue value is $14700. The spring market called for this vehicle (sporty) to be priced at a market value over book. It is a very nice car. This Mazdaspeed has been well taken care of and has four brand new performance tires to boot. Since we have moved out of spring and into summer I am prepared to discount the car for you. You may want to revisit the Kelly blue book site and make sure you add all the options and click on retail value and you will see the amount is much higher than what you had originally gathered. Either way I am prepared to sell this car for $12795. I hope you can see the value there and as important give yourself a chance to see this car. It is not your average car.
This car turns heads when it goes by. It's Hot and well respected throughout the driving enthusiast market. Please contact me with any questions.
My response:
Dear Mr. Blank,
I appreciate you taking the time and addressing my questions and
concerns directly. The KBB numbers are known to be inflated and not
representative of current market prices for certain models. KBB can
also be a source of considerable headaches for buyers and sellers
alike. An example being trade in values, I am sure as the Preowned
Manager you have experienced customer outrage and death of the deal
when they were not offered KBB or above trade value for their always
Excellent Condition vehicle. I hope that you do not take my candor
to be in any way disrespectful. I consider myself a fairly educated
consumer that is trying to find a vehicle that is priced at a mutually
beneficial level.
At 12.7 the car is still priced quite high for the market conditions
given current demand. There are nearly 200 MS Protgs available for
sale on line at this very moment. This number constitutes about 7.5%
of it's entire production run over a year and half. The MS Protg
was introduced to send off the platform and was heavily discounted as
the new Mazda 3 was released. I know this because I was thinking of
purchasing one new for 15,000-16,000 almost three and half years ago.
Given the depreciation rate of 37-42% for the MS Protgs that would
put it directly inline with dealer calculated "real world" trade in
values and corrected "real world" retail pricing not KBB valuation.
I am a very motivated buyer but also realize this is an inexpensive car and not worth uselessly haggling over. I would appreciate it if you or one of your staff members could keep my information handy if the price for this particular vehicle is adjusted further. Best of luck with the sale but I do hope to hear from you in the future.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan
His response:
Thanks for your reply Ryan. And yes, Kelly Blue books evaluated by a consumer typically confuses most. However the numbers established by Kelly blue book are from actual transactions and if kept at a retail figure and a good or excellent trade allowance number the transaction is generally a good representation of what a deal should look like. It's confusing for consumers that don't recognize the difference between an actual value of their car versus a Kelly Blue Book allowance that includes discount especially when the retail price of a car has been discounted. I've often considered having informational offerings for our customers in a group setting to try and explain how easy it is to buy a car and that an average consumer often gets in there own way of just finding a car and simply buying it. The fact of the matter concerning this particular MazdaSpeed is that I purchased this vehicle at
a local auction with probably 10-12 different dealers bidding on this car and based on that alone determines the actual market value of the vehicle we now own. Therefore, the vehicle priced with a fair profit better represents the current market conditions of this particular MazdaSpeed in our market far better than any opinion offered by either professional publication or consumer. I've discounted the vehicle further and as you know you have the power to make an offer if you would be so inclined. However, the number of 9,000 is far below what I paid for the vehicle bidding against other willing professional car buyers. I am sorry that I can not accept such an offer. If you would like to consider another offer it is my job to entertain one and I always do so seriously. Hopefully your offer is more realistic and you can get on to other things riding in a Mazdaspeed that sounds like you have wanted or at least seriously considered for quite sometime. Good luck!
I understand that dealerships are in the business of making money but at 12 this car is still priced too high. I am coming up with a response and I could use some assitance on pushing back. I understand that negotiation is best done in person but I would hate to waste an entire day I would much rather get a price nailed down with a faxed offer sheet signed and date with the cars vin number. I think I could get this car in the 8.75-9.75 range because it is just going to sit and lanquish at 12,700 otherwise or am I wrong?
500 miles of 02215
Cars.com
03.5 Stock 53k for 14k obo Private Seller gray Too High
03.5 Stock 62k for 10.9k Dealer Yellow Getting Better
03 stock 96k for 11k Dealer black CRAZY!
300 miles of 02215
Autotrader
03.5 30k for 15k Dealer gray Again very very high
I also emailed a dealership that had an 03.5MSP with 62,000 miles for $16,000 (Very high I know but I wanted to test the waters to see what I could knock the price down to online). So I have copied the message please let me know if I was wrong in the exchange with the used car manager I think the car still has two or three grand to knock off the price
Car specs: 03.5 62,000 miles asking 16,000
This was sent through cars.com a small write up. I wanted to push buttons and see how firm they were on the price.
Me:
I currently live 140 miles away. I have been calling dealerships inquiring
about pricing and their current flexibility since I would hate to take the long
drive and waste our time. I believe this to be more of a $9,000-$10,000 car based on realworld dealer numbers.
Dealership response:
Hi Ryan, my name is Mr. Blank and I'm the preowned manager here at Blank Blank Ford. This Mazda Protg is a MazdaSpeed and has a Kelly Blue value is $14700. The spring market called for this vehicle (sporty) to be priced at a market value over book. It is a very nice car. This Mazdaspeed has been well taken care of and has four brand new performance tires to boot. Since we have moved out of spring and into summer I am prepared to discount the car for you. You may want to revisit the Kelly blue book site and make sure you add all the options and click on retail value and you will see the amount is much higher than what you had originally gathered. Either way I am prepared to sell this car for $12795. I hope you can see the value there and as important give yourself a chance to see this car. It is not your average car.
This car turns heads when it goes by. It's Hot and well respected throughout the driving enthusiast market. Please contact me with any questions.
My response:
Dear Mr. Blank,
I appreciate you taking the time and addressing my questions and
concerns directly. The KBB numbers are known to be inflated and not
representative of current market prices for certain models. KBB can
also be a source of considerable headaches for buyers and sellers
alike. An example being trade in values, I am sure as the Preowned
Manager you have experienced customer outrage and death of the deal
when they were not offered KBB or above trade value for their always
Excellent Condition vehicle. I hope that you do not take my candor
to be in any way disrespectful. I consider myself a fairly educated
consumer that is trying to find a vehicle that is priced at a mutually
beneficial level.
At 12.7 the car is still priced quite high for the market conditions
given current demand. There are nearly 200 MS Protgs available for
sale on line at this very moment. This number constitutes about 7.5%
of it's entire production run over a year and half. The MS Protg
was introduced to send off the platform and was heavily discounted as
the new Mazda 3 was released. I know this because I was thinking of
purchasing one new for 15,000-16,000 almost three and half years ago.
Given the depreciation rate of 37-42% for the MS Protgs that would
put it directly inline with dealer calculated "real world" trade in
values and corrected "real world" retail pricing not KBB valuation.
I am a very motivated buyer but also realize this is an inexpensive car and not worth uselessly haggling over. I would appreciate it if you or one of your staff members could keep my information handy if the price for this particular vehicle is adjusted further. Best of luck with the sale but I do hope to hear from you in the future.
Kindest Regards,
Ryan
His response:
Thanks for your reply Ryan. And yes, Kelly Blue books evaluated by a consumer typically confuses most. However the numbers established by Kelly blue book are from actual transactions and if kept at a retail figure and a good or excellent trade allowance number the transaction is generally a good representation of what a deal should look like. It's confusing for consumers that don't recognize the difference between an actual value of their car versus a Kelly Blue Book allowance that includes discount especially when the retail price of a car has been discounted. I've often considered having informational offerings for our customers in a group setting to try and explain how easy it is to buy a car and that an average consumer often gets in there own way of just finding a car and simply buying it. The fact of the matter concerning this particular MazdaSpeed is that I purchased this vehicle at
a local auction with probably 10-12 different dealers bidding on this car and based on that alone determines the actual market value of the vehicle we now own. Therefore, the vehicle priced with a fair profit better represents the current market conditions of this particular MazdaSpeed in our market far better than any opinion offered by either professional publication or consumer. I've discounted the vehicle further and as you know you have the power to make an offer if you would be so inclined. However, the number of 9,000 is far below what I paid for the vehicle bidding against other willing professional car buyers. I am sorry that I can not accept such an offer. If you would like to consider another offer it is my job to entertain one and I always do so seriously. Hopefully your offer is more realistic and you can get on to other things riding in a Mazdaspeed that sounds like you have wanted or at least seriously considered for quite sometime. Good luck!
I understand that dealerships are in the business of making money but at 12 this car is still priced too high. I am coming up with a response and I could use some assitance on pushing back. I understand that negotiation is best done in person but I would hate to waste an entire day I would much rather get a price nailed down with a faxed offer sheet signed and date with the cars vin number. I think I could get this car in the 8.75-9.75 range because it is just going to sit and lanquish at 12,700 otherwise or am I wrong?
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