going forged

[alca0811]

Okay so here is the deal. If I don't sell my car, then I wanna go big. I am talking about trying to max out the car for HP and TQ. Bigger turbo, bigger FMIC, bigger brakes, etc. If I do go bigger turbo and bigger boost (rockon), I know that I need to go forged. Now my question for all of you in the peanut gallery is this. . .

Do I need a whole new forged engine, or just the pistons and rods?

Oh yeah, one more thing. What do forged parts do anyways??

 

[ForceFed]

Do I need a whole new forged engine, or just the pistons and rods?

Oh yeah, one more thing. What do forged parts do anyways??

This is all I needed to hear from you.

If you want more power..buy a different car...because you obviously lack the knowledge to do any kind of work yourself.....So this is not the car for you to be modding.

They are not Mod friendly...and do require hands on work..Which it does not appear you have the Technical know how to tackle.

Do yourself a favor....Leave it alone and buy a car that more suits your "wants" as it is.

 

[mspHtown]

i just went through a complete rebuild. you do not just buy pistons and rods and call it a day. if you want it done right, you will end up spending tons of money and time.

 

[Velocifero]

they try harder not to break. usually lighter, and more expensive obviously. basically they are stronger to with stand the added strains you are loading on the engine. If you are really gonna go big, you are going to need tranny work, head work, fuel, ecu, basically do a lot and youspend a lot. By no means am I saying don't go all out, just don't expect to only do a couple things and be able to get away with huge numbers. If you want to get around 300 you could probably get away with forged rods and proper fuel/ ecu, and it'd be easier of course with a bigger turbo, but the tranny will be in question at and beyond that. You def are going to need to improve the diff. cause extra power is gonna destroy it. look into cryotreating, shot peening, and strengthened gears, possibly a custom tranny built. You are also gonna have to be concerned with crank walk, If you are serious and when you get to it I have a knife edged and balanced crank shaft that I am not going to use. clutch, gonna need one that can handle this as well.

 

[ForceFed]

i just went through a complete rebuild. you do not just buy pistons and rods and call it a day. if you want it done right, you will end up spending tons of money and time.

Well...Techinically..from the Engine Point of View...You do just need new pistons and Rods.....The Crank is Forged already...However..you will still need to have all of the machine work properly done and the New Assembly properly re-assembled.

He could go as little as that...with no head work at all other than Milling the head before re-installing it...

But from the sounds of his post..He doesn't have a clue and should just leave it alone.
If he wants more power..He should be prepared to spend A LOT because it doesnt sound like he'll be turning many wrench's himself.....Or he should just buy a car that fits his power requirements and "wants".

 

[Witchdoktor]

there are some powerfull built proteges in the houston area. get with some of those guys. drive in one and see if it's something you'd want to pursue. they can tell you what a build consists of, supporting mods, upgrading stock systems, and what kind of price range you're looking at.

 

[mspHtown]

Well...Techinically..from the Engine Point of View...You do just need new pistons and Rods.....The Crank is Forged already...However..you will still need to have all of the machine work properly done and the New Assembly properly re-assembled.

He could go as little as that...with no head work at all other than Milling the head before re-installing it...

But from the sounds of his post..He doesn't have a clue and should just leave it alone.
If he wants more power..He should be prepared to spend A LOT because it doesnt sound like he'll be turning many wrench's himself.....Or he should just buy a car that fits his power requirements and "wants".

ummm for a complete rebuild for what he is looking at, no its not jsut the pistons and rods. all of the little things add up.


maybe we are looking at this differently, im not saying everything needs to be a forged piece, im saying that beyond the pistons and rods there are tons of parts to buy and tons of work to do.

 

[ForceFed]

ummm for a complete rebuild for what he is looking at, no its not jsut the pistons and rods. all of the little things add up.


maybe we are looking at this differently, im not saying everything needs to be a forged piece, im saying that beyond the pistons and rods there are tons of parts to buy and tons of work to do.

Do you think "I" don't know this ?
For a Forged motor....His main Needs are the Rods and pistons....Yes I know there are a ton of other things such as Gasket set, Machine work, New timing belt, bearings, Good hardware, and mainly...someone with some knowledge on how to assemble the thing.

Lots of little things do add up..But in reality..there isn't much to bulding a motor.

I do think we are thinking about this differently....There are some Inherent things that naturally come along with a rebuild...so I am not Including the BLATENTLY obvious.....But he is likely not to know what that entails..Hence my idea of leaving it alone.

 

[alca0811]

Well...Techinically..from the Engine Point of View...You do just need new pistons and Rods.....The Crank is Forged already...However..you will still need to have all of the machine work properly done and the New Assembly properly re-assembled.

He could go as little as that...with no head work at all other than Milling the head before re-installing it...

But from the sounds of his post..He doesn't have a clue and should just leave it alone.
If he wants more power..He should be prepared to spend A LOT because it doesnt sound like he'll be turning many wrench's himself.....Or he should just buy a car that fits his power requirements and "wants".

First and foremost, I have more than a clue as to what I am doing. . . I have some know how as to work on my car. . . and your Sh** stinks like ours so stop trying to make me sound stupid. There are somethings that I still don't understand fully and that is why I asked. If you feel that strongly about what people are trying to do to thier cars, then don't read my thread, and dont post a reply.

 

[alca0811]

they try harder not to break. usually lighter, and more expensive obviously. basically they are stronger to with stand the added strains you are loading on the engine. If you are really gonna go big, you are going to need tranny work, head work, fuel, ecu, basically do a lot and youspend a lot. By no means am I saying don't go all out, just don't expect to only do a couple things and be able to get away with huge numbers. If you want to get around 300 you could probably get away with forged rods and proper fuel/ ecu, and it'd be easier of course with a bigger turbo, but the tranny will be in question at and beyond that. You def are going to need to improve the diff. cause extra power is gonna destroy it. look into cryotreating, shot peening, and strengthened gears, possibly a custom tranny built. You are also gonna have to be concerned with crank walk, If you are serious and when you get to it I have a knife edged and balanced crank shaft that I am not going to use. clutch, gonna need one that can handle this as well.

Well, by no means was I planning on dropping about $20k in the car all at once and getting a car that is too much for me. I was gonna build her little by little. I was shooting for being done with this project in about 3 - 5 years. I understand all of the other things that go with the build, I had just typed the turbo and other things to give people an idea as to how big I wanted to go. In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

 

[alca0811]

there are some powerfull built proteges in the houston area. get with some of those guys. drive in one and see if it's something you'd want to pursue. they can tell you what a build consists of, supporting mods, upgrading stock systems, and what kind of price range you're looking at.

Yeah, I already know MP3Architect and Citizenpro and a couple of other people with Pros. I haven't really asked them about much of their mods.

 

[ForceFed]

In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

Dude..do you REALISTICALLY realize what it would take to get a protege to this power level..Its not even worth it..Even if you spread it out over 5 years.


300HP is about the Nominal worthwhile power level of this car.

I never called you stupid...But by your own words..you obvously know a lot less than what it will require to get your car to this level AND be able to MAINTAIN it on your own without paying for a wrench every week.

If you really want a 500HP car...you need to buy another car to build...This isn't the car for you.

I am not trying to be a dick..I am just keeping it real and trying to save you a lot of headache in the process.

 

[kylenls]

to get the "most" power out of your car you are looking at about 10-12k bucks if you dont do the work yourself.

However if you wanted a mild build with forged internals and a refreshed head maybe even after market springs, valves and even cometic head gasket you can get that all done and be in the 220-250hp range safely and reliably for about 3500-5000 depending on the parts you use. if you arent building a race car there is no need to go "all" out.

good luck man.

 

[crashkelly]

Dude..do you REALISTICALLY realize what it would take to get a protege to this power level..Its not even worth it..Even if you spread it out over 5 years.


300HP is about the Nominal worthwhile power level of this car.

I never called you stupid...But by you own words..you obvously know a lot less than what it will require to get your car to this level AND be able to MAINTAIN it on your own without paying for a wrench every week.

If you really want a 500HP car...you need to buy another car to build...This isn't the car for you.

I am not trying to be a dick..I am just keeping it real and trying to save you a lot of headache in the process.

I have to agree with Forcefed...there are just so many people who troll around the forums and read the key words like "forged" and "turbo" or "meth-injection"...then the next thing out of their mouth is "HEY GUYS I'M GOING FORGED!" but then they do not even know what that means.

I mean you came into the thread saying you either want to sell it or go forged...but then you ask what forged parts do...so why did you want to go forged? You dont know what forged parts do or WHICH parts are the ones to go forged with. Forcefed is trying to save you a lot of hassle.

You said you know a lot about cars, but there are some things you need to learn...well learn what going forged is all about before deciding you want to do it. You just had 4 of the heavy hitters with forged engines come in your thread and give you the low down....so dont come back throwing s*** in their faces because you cant take internet criticism.

 

[crashkelly]

Well, by no means was I planning on dropping about $20k in the car all at once and getting a car that is too much for me. I was gonna build her little by little. I was shooting for being done with this project in about 3 - 5 years. I understand all of the other things that go with the build, I had just typed the turbo and other things to give people an idea as to how big I wanted to go. In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

after making this statement I am going to say just sell your car...you dont know what you are getting into...There was another guy who just dropped over 20,000 into his car and put the biggest turbo anyone has put in a Pro in there and still did not get 500whp....When you go forged you cannot just build a little piece at a time....It's not like you open the engine up put a new set of bearings in then close it up and open it again when you get the rods, then close it up, then open it when you get the pistons....It just doesnt work like that.

The fact of the matter is that you know how to bolt on some hardpipes and now you think you know everything there is to know about engines...Let me tell you dude, I know a lot of s*** about cars and I wouldnt attempt going forged without just buying another block to work with (Thats the big thing that holds the bottom of the engine together...you dont need to get it forged in order to "go forged")...and I certainly wouldnt attempt it if I didnt even know what a forged part was...I mean come on man...do the research

 

[shane02pro5]

Even if you "ONLY" wanted 300whp

$10k easily doing everything yourself except the getting the head decked off at a machine shop. Tranny addressed at least with a welded MSP LSD. New timing belt water pump oil pump gaskets. The tranny can be as weak as the rods at 300 and pretty much only a matter of time.

Add another $3-5k on top of that if you have the work done for you!

500whp is unrealistic and where no one has been. That would require much much more and no matter what, could pop at any time!

 

[kylenls]

. In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

That will cost some huge dollars and alot more than just a forged block.....

 

[kylenls]

Even if you "ONLY" wanted 300whp

$10k easily doing everything yourself except the getting the head decked off at a machine shop. Tranny addressed at least with a welded MSP LSD. New timing belt water pump oil pump gaskets. The tranny can be as weak as the rods at 300 and pretty much only a matter of time.

Add another $3-5k on top of that if you have the work done for you!

500whp is unrealistic and where no one has been. That would require much much more and no matter what, could pop at any time!

agreed, like i said you can have a mild setup with forged internals and a decent flowing head built and installed for like 3500-5000 (depending on parts) that would be a reliable and a strong 220 hp or so. i personally love my MSP but would never dump 20-30k into making a 500 hp non-streetable mazda protege.

 

[Velocifero]

Even if you "ONLY" wanted 300whp

$10k easily doing everything yourself except the getting the head decked off at a machine shop. Tranny addressed at least with a welded MSP LSD. New timing belt water pump oil pump gaskets. The tranny can be as weak as the rods at 300 and pretty much only a matter of time.

Add another $3-5k on top of that if you have the work done for you!

500whp is unrealistic and where no one has been. That would require much much more and no matter what, could pop at any time!

been done

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xC9WzB-oXMU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xC9WzB-oXMU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

all just matters how much you are willing to spend and still have the car.

 

[Velocifero]

agreed, like i said you can have a mild setup with forged internals and a decent flowing head built and installed for like 3500-5000 (depending on parts) that would be a reliable and a strong 220 hp or so. i personally love my MSP but would never dump 20-30k into making a 500 hp non-streetable mazda protege.

I am safely shy of 220 on stock motor, stock can handle more than 250 if you do it right and safely, if you forge you are wasting your money to stay even below 275.