FWD or AWD?

[TreyP]

Funny, I've seen that happen in summer with cars that had high performance tires too.

Funny, I've seen that happen with truck-based SUVs running Mud/Snow tires too.

So you are saying you think it is ok to have snows on the front and all seasons on the rear?

 

[CX-SV]

So you are saying you think it is ok to have snows on the front and all seasons on the rear?

I'm saying any vehicle driven poorly and at excessive speed even with snows on all 4 can end up on roof, displaying exhaust system for those interested.

 

[TreyP]

I'm saying any vehicle driven poorly and at excessive speed even with snows on all 4 can end up on roof, displaying exhaust system for those interested.

Agreed.

But, that has nothing to do with this discussion or the back story that was posted with the picture:

I attempted to go with the turn, but hit another ice patch and the rear of my car hit the embankment and cause the car to flip. Yes I had snow tires, but as someone stated I had all season tires on the back.

 

[CXVille]

Agreed.

But, that has nothing to do with this discussion or the back story that was posted with the picture:

I attempted to go with the turn, but hit another ice patch and the rear of my car hit the embankment and cause the car to flip. Yes I had snow tires, but as someone stated I had all season tires on the back.

He was going too fast for conditions. Conditions include the road conditions, visibility, driver skill, experience and condition, and vehicle condition. He exceeded some combination of these. It would appear his experience and possibly vehicle conditions (all seasons on the back). Yes, four wheel snows is much better. But putting all seasons on the back does NOT mean you will lose the back end. It means under specific conditions you need to slow down. He either didn't recognize those conditions or couldn't handle them. Probably a little of both.

Edit: And to keep the FWD vs. AWD theme: AWD wouldn't of made a whit of a difference.

 

[TreyP]

But putting all seasons on the back does NOT mean you will lose the back end.

Care to explain this? As I stated above, the weight of the vehicle shifts to the front under braking, which means less traction in back, which means all seasons will contribute to the bad situation and cause the rear to spin around to the front much easier than would have happened with snows.

Edit: And to keep the FWD vs. AWD theme: AWD wouldn't of made a whit of a difference.

This I agree with.

 

[CX-SV]

He was going too fast for conditions. Had he been going at safe speed the stability control system combined with skills of competent driver would have made recovery possible.

Picture and narrative talks about exhaust system and none of this relates to "fwd or AWD" topic.

 

[Surfsup]

The road in the pic is nearly dry. This probably would have happened regardless of any tires he had. For all we know the driver lied about what happened.

On another note, AWD was very handy this AM in Chicago after the 6 in of snow we got last night.

 

[Rob Ciniello]

I feel the fwd is better. A good set of snow tires will beat any awd with all seasons. Awd doesn't mean it's safer at all

 

[MATR6]

Stop beating a dead horse. No one is agruing that an AWD car with all seasons has better traction than a FWD car with snow tires. So stop posting that.
It is a fact.
But for most people & the general public, we are not going to buy a set of snow tires, so that is why we bought an AWD car with all seasons. It will provide better traction than a FWD car with All Season Tires.

I repeat again. A FWD CAR WITH SNOW TIRES WILL HAVE BETTER TRACTION THAN AN AWD CAR WITH ALL SEASON TIRES.
Now stop stating the obvious. The discussion is for people who are deciding AWD vs FWD stock vs stock.
If one is going to buy snow tires, there's no sense in getting an AWD model. EDIT (for best economical option for driving in snowy conditions)

 

[CX-SV]

Good point MATR6, since this is a AWD vs. FWD thread:

. The most valid comparison is FWD vs AWD, both with all-seasons (stock vs. stock)
. A valid comparison is FWD vs AWD, both with same aftermarket snow tires.
. Also some magazines have tested the AWD version on a closed track (such as Laguna Seca) and given comments and positive feedback on AWD at speed on a dry track btw.

 

[MATR6]

Good point MATR6, since this is a AWD vs. FWD thread:

. The most valid comparison is FWD vs AWD, both with all-seasons (stock vs. stock)
. A valid comparison is FWD vs AWD, both with same aftermarket snow tires.
. Also some magazines have tested the AWD version on a closed track (such as Laguna Seca) and given comments and positive feedback on AWD at speed on a dry track btw.

TY. At least keep the comparisons on a even playing field.

No one is saying AWD is a must in snowy climates & just bc you have AWD doesn't mean it's going to go through any inclement weather with ice & snow. Even the snow plows got stuck when it snowed 18" here 3 years ago. So I doubt any car with even snow tires will go through it.

As I mention before, I like having AWD bc it gives me the extra traction in the rear wheels when I need it, like when it rains or if there is debris on the road. So it's not all about going through snow.

The CX-5 isn't a performance car but in my speed6, this guy in a Golf 1.8T keeps wanting to race me & by the time he gets traction in 1st gear, I'm 3-4 cars ahead of him & he does a ricer flyby at 70/80 mph after I shut down already on a local street where speed limit is 40/45.
I used to think AWD was a waste because of the added cost of the vehicle, maintenance & lower mpg. Now on my 2nd AWD car & soon to replace the speed6 with the '15 WRX, I will stick with AWD cars.
If I lived in CA,TX,FL, etc, somewhere in the south, I'd probably buy a RWD car.

 

[CXVille]

Originally Posted by CXVille View Post
But putting all seasons on the back does NOT mean you will lose the back end..

Care to explain this? As I stated above, the weight of the vehicle shifts to the front under braking, which means less traction in back, which means all seasons will contribute to the bad situation and cause the rear to spin around to the front much easier than would have happened with snows.

You are implying that the simple act of leaving all seasons on the back will cause the vehicle to spin out. That is an over simplification. You correctly noted that the weight transfer will occur. However, this occurs with snow tires as well, and poor driving in either case can cause this. All seasons may make it more likely this will occur, but they are not the sole reason. With ABS, the rears will not lock up and no spin should occur, unless the driver is also turning. For this to occur, the driver exceeded the vehicle's (roadway and vehicle) capabilities, and the driver was unable to control the situation. The driver makes it spin out in almost all situations.

 

[Surfsup]

If one is going to buy snow tires, there's no sense in getting an AWD model.

Sorry but AWD with snow tires is going to always be better then FWD with snow tires. Maybe at speed the two will equate, but during initial acceleration or going uphill/downhill, AWD will always win over 2WD. Maybe the car OEMs should start making OWD (one wheel drive) if your statement is true, why have two wheels engaged? The car only needs one, right?

 

[MATR6]

Sorry but AWD with snow tires is going to always be better then FWD with snow tires. Maybe at speed the two will equate, but during initial acceleration or going uphill/downhill, AWD will always win over 2WD. Maybe the car OEMs should start making OWD (one wheel drive) if your statement is true, why have two wheels engaged? The car only needs one, right?

Yes. Having AWD with snow tires will be the best option. I edited my comment with a disclaimer after my statement (for best economical option for driving in snowy conditions) But for the money conscious who don't want to spent the extra $1300 for the AWD option & rather spend that on a set of snow tires & get better mpg the rest of the year.
FWD with a set of snow tires is the most economical option.
Now stating the obvious again. Here is a list from best traction scenario to least.
AWD with snow tires
FWD with snow tires
AWD with all seasons
FWD with all seasons
Let the above list be know facts & stop the discussion on what drivetrain & what tires are the best for traction.

 

[vroom]

Tires aside (I agree every drop has been squeezed out now) I think one big mistake people make when choosing AWD over FWD is confusing traction with road handeling. Traction (what you get from AWD) acts only in the forward direction. It does nothing laterally (in a curve for example) nor does it help in breaking. Thus AWD is more for the fun of leaving others behind at a stop or light (as stated by MATR6), or occasionally getting unstuck in deep snow or on a slippery hill. I have a hard time with AWD being called a safety feature. In fact I think considering it a safety feature is dangerous as it inspires overconfidence.

 

[Beefy]

Traction (what you get from AWD) acts only in the forward direction. It does nothing laterally (in a curve for example)

Not true. If only from a theoretical physics point of view, taking a bend is acceleration and requires more power put down to the road than coasting in a straight line. On a more practical level, rear wheels engaging can compensate for traction loss at the front wheels by pushing the car forward, and the reduced power to front wheels helps regain grip for steering.

To be honest though, I haven't pushed my own CX-5 hard enough such that I could assert this does actually happen in its AWD system.

 

[vroom]

Not true. If only from a theoretical physics point of view, taking a bend is acceleration and requires more power put down to the road than coasting in a straight line. On a more practical level, rear wheels engaging can compensate for traction loss at the front wheels by pushing the car forward, and the reduced power to front wheels helps regain grip for steering.

To be honest though, I haven't pushed my own CX-5 hard enough such that I could assert this does actually happen in its AWD system.

Respectfully, I really have no idea what you are talking about. Taking a bend requires absolutely no additional power to be put down on the road. If it would, coasting in a curve would slow you down, which it does not. It does however require additional latteral force, which is provided by friction from all four tires in either FWD or AWD configuration. And on a practical level, any loss at the front in a curve will be latteral, which the rear wheels can do nothing about.

In reality, having rear wheels engaged in a turn does change the driving dynamics a bit, since spinning them puts them into a dynamic friction mode. In that mode, friction becomes less, so you can force the back wheels to slip latteraly, leading to oversteer. Experienced drivers can take advantage of this to drift, or in other words to control a loss of control. Since very few drivers have the skills to do that, the CX-5 AWD is not engaged 100% of the time and has DSC which prevents drifting, the impact of AWD in a curve compared to FWD in a curve will be very subtile at best.

 

[CXVille]

Taking a turn does require more power than going straight. Not much. Very little, but some. However, unless you are running right at the limit of the vehicle, like 99%, the front wheels will have the capacity to maintain the speed through the turn.

The AWD vs. FWD debate on handling is fairly simple. For all but the best drivers trying to squeeze the absolute max out of the vehicle (racing) it is irrelevant. The driver is the weak spot. The manner in which the vehicle behaves is far more important and so far beyond almost all the drivers on the board it doesn't matter. Let me put it another way, AWD is not necessarily any safer for the average driver in terms of handling. Period. Now, there may be handling differences between an AWD and a FWD that makes one better than the other. However it is not inherent in the AWD vs. FWD.

AWD is fantastic when it comes to starting out, accelerating, climbing hills. No question about that.

As others have said, AWD may be riskier for the average driver because of increased confidence during acceleration leads to a false sens of security and capability.

 

[vroom]

Taking a turn does require more power than going straight.

Well, being a theretical physicist (I hate throwing around credentials on forums, I know they mean very little, just to add context...), I certtainly know that there is very often a difference between theory and practice. In thery, an object in a curve does not loose any energy as long as there is only a latteral force acting upon it. So it does not require any additional power to maintain speed. Now in practice, there might be some slight energy loss from friction in the differential or whatever. I don't know since I can barely tell a wrench from a screw driver. But I suspect that the energy loss (and thus additional power required) would be too insignificant to even be relevant to this discussion.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Well, being a theretical physicist (I hate throwing around credentials on forums, I know they mean very little, just to add context...), I certtainly know that there is very often a difference between theory and practice. In thery, an object in a curve does not loose any energy as long as there is only a latteral force acting upon it. So it does not require any additional power to maintain speed. Now in practice, there might be some slight energy loss from friction in the differential or whatever. I don't know since I can barely tell a wrench from a screw driver. But I suspect that the energy loss (and thus additional power required) would be too insignificant to even be relevant to this discussion.

Did you factor in the crosswind component? Guys this is getting silly. Something interesting for the AWD. Cocksport just released the rear sway bar that works with AWD http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123838558-CorkSport-2013-Cx5-Rear-Swaybar