Fuel Pump

[70]

The car tries for 14.7:1 - and it gets it. The turbo wants 12:1 or even richer.

blynzoo, I caught the sarcasm. I was just making sure everyone understood. We spend most of the day helping people program the Link ECUs in their Miatas...

Keith

When is it the Proteges turn??

 

[Keith@FP]

There won't be a plug-in, full replacement Link for the Protege for a long time, if ever.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Another reason I was thinking Haltech, that was of coarse until they shut down there US office due to very poor customer service.

 

[twizyours]

This isn't a honda man the fuel tank on the protege is a little more complicated than that....trust me i've looked into it to run braided lines from the tank.

Well if it is anything like the probe/Mx-6 it shouldnt be to hard ( which is engineered by Mazda). It looks like it when you remove the pro's back seat. Probally why they put the fuel filter in the tank. I changed my old probes fuel filter in a couple of minutes without spilling fuel. No I havent change or removed the fuel pump and have no plans on it since I have no reason to rite now. I dont understand what honda has to do with it. I also think running braide line would be harder then changing the pump.

 

[70]

There won't be a plug-in, full replacement Link for the Protege for a long time, if ever.

Keith

Darn it!! What if someone volunteers?

 

[Traveler]

Hey Keith, wouldn't it just be easier to install an extra injector setup on our cars? That way you won't have to push fuel pressure up as high to compensate. The problem doesn't seem to be with flow, but with our pumps ability to produce pressure. For low boost apps, why not just leave the stock injectors and fuel pressure regulator alone and start adding fuel with an AIC? I know that the stock system would start to lean a bit as the manifold pressure rises, but if we just added a little bit more with an AIC and a couple injectors then we wouldn't have to pull the stock pump or put in a booster pump would we?

The A/F ratio that our computer is shooting for is right at 14.7:1 as Keith said. The WOT setting is considerably richer at anything over 3500 RPM. Mine went to 10:1 by 3900 RPM before I put my header on. That's WAY too rich. That's why I was thinking that since our WOT settings are already so rich that we wouldn't have to start adding fuel until somewhere between 1-2 psi of manifold pressure. I'm going to need a wideband O2 or an EGT to monitor mine before I go boosted.

 

[spoolinmp3]

wouldn't it just be easier to install an extra injector setup on our cars? That way you won't have to push fuel pressure up as high to compensate. The problem doesn't seem to be with flow, but with our pumps ability to produce pressure. For low boost apps, why not just leave the stock injectors and fuel pressure regulator alone and start adding fuel with an AIC?

This will work however it is costly.
You will need to have a intake manifold modded with injector bungs, fuel rail, lines, 4 injectors ect to make it work and this aint cheap. Additional fuel injection via 2 addtl injectors in the charge pipe is no better than an FMU/FPR.

The key is to run a system...either standalone or piggy that can actually control bigger injectors for fuel such as a haltech or a piggay back system that can manipulate timing and fuel via bigger injectors not addtl ones...this is what we are working on

 

[2Rusty]

Well if it is anything like the probe/Mx-6 it shouldnt be to hard ( which is engineered by Mazda). It looks like it when you remove the pro's back seat. Probally why they put the fuel filter in the tank. I changed my old probes fuel filter in a couple of minutes without spilling fuel. No I havent change or removed the fuel pump and have no plans on it since I have no reason to rite now. I dont understand what honda has to do with it. I also think running braide line would be harder then changing the pump.

I'm not really sure what Honda has to do with it either. An in-tank fuel pump install is nothing to be afraid of so long as you can access it from the top

 

[Kooldino]

That's the way we look at it as well. In-tank fuel pumps are a pain.

Keith

My friend just swapped his in-tanker out of his WRX. Took about an hour. Have you tried doing it to ours? I just hear it's better to have a single, good pump. I wouldn't mind throwing a dealer an hour labor to do a fuel pump.

 

[Kooldino]

Simply having the ability to reprogram won't solve your problems - then you have to reprogram it PROPERLY. That's harder than it sounds.

The stock ECU switches between closed and open loop operation based on load. Basically, it's a combination of throttle position and rev range but measured by the MAS.

The stock pump can provide sufficient pressure for a while, but it starts to fail if you push it too hard for too long. It will likely provide high flow for years, it's high pressure that's the killer.

Keith

How many lph is our stock pump?

SO basically if you ran larger injectors your pump would be SAFER that it would be than if you ran an FMU?

 

[1sty]

Yes but since there is no way to tell the car you have bigger injector you will be running way to rich

 

[Kooldino]

Yes but since there is no way to tell the car you have bigger injector you will be running way to rich

Well, you'd obvously need injector control if you went with bigger injectors.

 

[spoolinmp3]

SO basically if you ran larger injectors your pump would be SAFER that it would be than if you ran an FMU?

Yes less pressure is put on the pump

 

[spoolinmp3]

I just hear it's better to have a single, good pump. I wouldn't mind throwing a dealer an hour labor to do a fuel pump.

Intanks are better and provide a cleaner install, however the inline is much easier to install. I have used an inline with no problems. Just stay away from the MSD/Vortech pumps
Go with a bosch unit they make excellent inline's

 

[Keith@FP]

Let just mention something. This setup is very similar to our Miata System 4.2 setup. We have hundreds of those on the street. One customer has 200,000 miles on his. The Pierburg auxiliary pump is a good piece and totally reliable. The AFPR ("FMU" is too generic a term as far as I'm concerned) works well in the correct application, and that's what this is.

We burned out a brand new Venom in-tank pump in a week with our Miata race car. Guess what's in there now?

As Terry said, extra injector setups are expensive and really need four injectors to work well due to fuel distribution problems. You'll still have to deal with the stock ECU trying to pull back fuel. The only way to prevent this is to take the stock ECU out of the loop completely.

Running different injectors with a different ECU involves a lot more tuning for cold start, idle, off-boost reponse, etc. It's a good solution, but a high-end one. We may go this way for our higher boost setups, but we're trying to keep the price down and have something that is easy to tune and support.

Keith

 

[Kooldino]

Keith, so you've had no problem with the in-line auxilary pump in your protege or miatas? Have any fuel pump horror stories?

Does the aux pump stress the stock pump any harder?

 

[Keith@FP]

No, we've had no problem with the in-line pump. The only horror story I've got is a certain race car with borderline injector sizing and an in-tank that started to fail. Sure was hard on pistons...

The auxiliary pump does not work the stock pump any harder. It takes a big load off it.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Am I correct to assume that if the Main pump starts to fail the aux can be added and the original will not degrade any further?

 

[70]

No, we've had no problem with the in-line pump. The only horror story I've got is a certain race car with borderline injector sizing and an in-tank that started to fail. Sure was hard on pistons...

The auxiliary pump does not work the stock pump any harder. It takes a big load off it.

Keith

Track Dog likes gas I guess...MMMM, fuel...

 

[Keith@FP]

Yes, if your main pump is struggling to deliver the pressure you need adding the Pierburg will solve the problem.

Yes, Track Dog likes gas

Keith