Fuel cut off???

[Brian MP5T]

​

Well, I have installed a rear mounted turbo on my 02 protege es. Blah Blah Bah

You will destroy that turbo within 2 Months. The oil will not enter the bearing because the oil is collecting in the return line. You need a scavenger pump and a collection oil pan for the oil to fall into. Serioulsy. I'm not trying to be a hater but this is the must fix thing. There are other things that are making BABY JESUS CRY here..


http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90723

Here is a "HOW TO" thread that I have been meaning to do for two years.

There are several options when considering your Turbo Bering Oil feed and return lines.

This will be considered as a "BEST CASE SENARIO" . I realise that not everyone has the desire to spend as much on things or is interested in the Best solution at all cost so bear in mind that my solution might be overpriced in your opinion.

First, The Turbo is fed by oil from the engine and that oil is abused and turned into a milky white puss by the turbo berings spinning at as much as 125,000 RPM. This oil/puss is retuned to the oil pan and filtered and sent through again either to the engine or the turbo.

Q1: Where Do I get the oil from?
A1: On the back of the block, there are two sensors; the one closest to the Oil Filter is the one that triggers your Low Oil Pressure Light on the Dash, That's a good start. Get the fitting that fits the 1/8" Hole to an AN-4 Hose Fitting.

Q2: Why does the Oil Return Line Have to be so much larger than the Inlet?
A2: The Oil coming out of the housing is thrashed by the Bering and moves slowly. It needs to be able to be pulled by gravity and Air must be able to move up the line at the same time so there is no backpressure to prevent the oil from returning to the oil pan. Overlooking this step could result in inadequate oil supply and Bering failure due to starvation.

Q3: Why did you decide to Retun the oil to the Crank Support rather than the oil pan?
A3: As stated earlier, The oil return line must have air at the base, so for best results, the line should be as high away from the oil in the pan as possibe. It is possible to tap this adaptor to the oil pan but, make it as high as possible. I do not recomend this. The MSP returns the oil to the Crank Support Plate, Not the pan for a reason.

Q4: What Happens to the Oil Pressure Sending Unit after It's removed for the Oil Line?
A4: It gets placed into Fitting FBM2818 and hooked up to the wire again unless you have an Autometer Oil Pressure Gauge in Mind, then leave the stock sensor in the garbage and disconnect the line (The light will not come on if the pressure drops so keep an eye on the gauge)

Q5: Are You Obsessive Compulsive Brian?
A5: Yes, I'm the king of Overkill.

When you are building the Oil Supply Line. Make two Seperate Lines. A Short One With two straight Ends and a Long One with a 90 Deg and a Straight end. Join the two with the Tee Fitting that the oil sending unit fits into.


Here is what you need to do it like I did.

All Prices were from SUMMIT RACING...
Type the AER-******* Code in the Summit Part# Box to Find.
http://store.summitracing.com


Oil Line Parts...
(1) $15.00 US -- 1X AER-FCM1031 Fitting, Hose End, 90 Degree, -4 AN, -4 AN Adapter, Steel, Natural/Red, Each
(1) $25.00 US -- 1x AER-FCA0406 Hose, Braided Stainless Steel, -4 AN, 6 Ft. Length, Each
(1) $16.95 US -- 1x AER-FBM2818 Fitting, Adapter, Female Pipe Flare Tee -4 AN, 1/8 in. NPT, -4 AN, Steel, Each
(3) $7.88 US -- 3x AER-FBM1011 Fitting, Hose End, Straight, -4 AN, -4 AN Adapter, Steel, Natural/Red, Each


Oil Return Parts...
(1) $19.00 US -- 1X AER-FCA1003 Hose, Braided Stainless Steel, -10 AN, 3 Ft. Length, Each (You Can Cut Shorter)
(2) $9.25 US -- 2X AER-FCM1014 Fitting, Hose End, Straight, -10 AN, -10 AN Adapter, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each
(1) $15.95 US -- 1X AER-FCM2024 Fitting, Adapter, 45 Degree -10 AN Male to 1/2 in. NPT Male, Aluminum, Blue, Each
(1) $6.95 US -- 1X AER-FCM2009 Fitting, Adapter, Straight -10 AN Male to 1/2 in. NPT Male, Aluminum, Blue, Each

EDIT:

Update. Here is the finished Product...

​

 

[Brian MP5T]

Well. I think ive narrowed down my problem. I hooked up my timing light and i found that when i hi around 3500 rpm my signal stops. I dont get any spark after that. It will get a flash every now and then but barely. So now im trying to figure out why. Has anyone had this happen? Also i want to check the voltage on the coils but i dont know which wires are which. Does anyone know which one is the positive, ground , and trigger ont the connecter that plugs into the coil?

Check the crank and cam position sensors. This will cut spark as well.

 

[Brian MP5T]

Why would you think there is less exhaust gasses in the exahust system by the muffler.... There will be the same amount of exhaust gasses at any point in the system... unless there is a leak.

Umm, The Turbo is powered by "Expanding Exhaust Gasses" Not Ex Flow.. IE The Heat of the Exhaust not the flow. The heat will be reduced drastically by distance.

There are serious spool drawbacks to this design. Hower. 1 Psi is better thatn No Psi. It will still function and there will be boost, until he drives a car that has the turbo 6" from the manifold he will not believe...

The idea is interesting, it is on the other end of the planet when it comes to text book turbo design, by that I mean, lets say you are building a turbo kit and you do a shitload of reading... then design an awesome system but instead of building that, you take the design and make it the opposite.

Blackrose had to explain it to you...
"There will be the same amount of exhaust gasses at any point in the system... unless there is a leak. There wont be any real pressure drop issues either."

:bs:WARNING WARNING WARNING :bs:
​

Also Maybe a small turbo has too much work to charge up the intake charge pipe, a bigger turbo would help the lag in that case (little diferent then conventional)​

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NO ******* WAY IS THIS REMOTELY PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE THAT IS ONCE AGAIN THE OPPOSITE.
A BIGGER TURBO WILL NOT FILL THE PIPE BETTER BECAUSE IT WILL NOT SPOOL TILL 6500 RPM.
THE TURBO IS NOT SPOOLING UNTIL 4500 BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION AND IT'S PROXIMITY TO THE ENGINE.
NOT BECAUSE IT'S HAVING A PRBOLEM FILLING THE TUBES. HOLY s***!
​

You Sir are Misinformed and filling the forum with misinformation. PLEASE STOP.​

 

[DiS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rac3rX

Also Maybe a small turbo has too much work to charge up the intake charge pipe, a bigger turbo would help the lag in that case (little diferent then conventional)​

I gotta agree with Brian here. That's total bs. I hope you don't tell that to everybody otherwise people with asshole attitude will laugh at ya bro. Bigger turbo will increase the amount of lag unlike smaller turbo. Smaller turbo will spool MUCH faster. Take stock T25 turbo from MSP and compare that to T3 turbo. Smaller compressor = shorter/faster spool time = less lag or no lag.

Why do you think people with drag cars spray nitrous 1st? That's because there's such a huge amount of turbo lag, that they need nitrous to get the turbo spooling faster to eliminate SOME of that turbo lag.

 

[green dart]

Believe me we already thought about the oil return we have a scavenge pump to bring the oil back to the engine. The turbo is not not working to hard, this turbo is used in v dubs and i have seen it push 26 psi so there is no way at 5 psi its working to hard. As for the size, we used a smaller than normal turbo so that it would spool as quick as possible. I believe the hesitaion lies somwhere within the sensors and ecu. We have still not tested the MAF. I have to push my brother to get it done, lol.

 

[Rac3rX]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rac3rX

Also Maybe a small turbo has too much work to charge up the intake charge pipe, a bigger turbo would help the lag in that case (little diferent then conventional)​

I gotta agree with Brian here. That's total bs. I hope you don't tell that to everybody otherwise people with asshole attitude will laugh at ya bro. Bigger turbo will increase the amount of lag unlike smaller turbo. Smaller turbo will spool MUCH faster. Take stock T25 turbo from MSP and compare that to T3 turbo. Smaller compressor = shorter/faster spool time = less lag or no lag.

Why do you think people with drag cars spray nitrous 1st? That's because there's such a huge amount of turbo lag, that they need nitrous to get the turbo spooling faster to eliminate SOME of that turbo lag.

What you guys fail to realize is the point I was trying to make is that once spooled (And up to full spool) a smaller turbo needs to work more to charge the same amount as a big turbo, The amount needed to be charged might be exceeding the efficiency of the turbo at those boost levels... (Think of a small compressor trying to fill a large tank, Vs a Big compressor filling the same size tank) A bigger turbo wont essentially spools as fast as a smaller one, BUT its compressing more at a time...... This doesnt apear to be the issue at hand, as its been said that that paticular turbo has been seen boosting fine in the 20's, I was only trying to look at the issue from a different angle.

 

[Brian MP5T]

What you guys fail to realize is the point I was trying to make is that once spooled (And up to full spool) a smaller turbo needs to work more to charge the same amount as a big turbo, The amount needed to be charged might be exceeding the efficiency of the turbo at those boost levels... A bigger turbo wont essentially spools as fast as a smaller one, BUT its compressing more at a time...... This doesnt apear to be the issue at hand, as its been said that that paticular turbo has been seen boosting fine in the 20's, I was only trying to look at the issue from a different angle.

Perhaps... The Diferent Angle that you selected turned out to be 180 Deg from the truth.

At least you are trying to explore possibilities... and bring up points..

 

[Rac3rX]

Well when I look arround at rear mount kits, they opt for big turbos because of the pipe lenths needed to be charged

With the logic, Its better to use a big compressor to fill a big tank, Vs a Small compressor to fill the same size tank.

That Turbo Might of been working fine (And efficient) close to the throttle, but I would expect it to lose some of that efficiency when placed Much further away.

 

[Rac3rX]

The way to go is a huge compressor filling up a very small volume which only takes a fraction of a second. Modern Turbos (Used in rear mount kits Charging long pipes) compress the intake tubing in about .05 seconds, Lag?

 

[Brian MP5T]

Well when I look arround at rear mount kits, they opt for big turbos because of the pipe lenths needed to be charged

With the logic, Its better to use a big compressor to fill a big tank, Vs a Small compressor to fill the same size tank.

That Turbo Might of been working fine (And efficient) close to the throttle, but I would expect it to lose some of that efficiency when placed Much further away.

Dude the diference in spool is like 1/10 of a second..

 

[Brian MP5T]

The way to go is a huge compressor filling up a very small volume which only takes a fraction of a second. Modern Turbos (Used in rear mount kits Charging long pipes) compress the intake tubing in about .05 seconds, Lag?

Dude, The Actual Diference between a GT-25 and GT-30 is like 1/8" on the compressor and 1/4" on the Turbine..

You make it out to be some kind of Mouse Turbo VS Elephant Turbo..

The theory is only good on paper and in your mind. It's Physically not possible or measurable.

 

[Rac3rX]

Dude, The Actual Diference between a GT-25 and GT-30 is like 1/8" on the compressor and 1/4" on the Turbine..

You make it out to be some kind of Mouse Turbo VS Elephant Turbo..

The theory is only good on paper and in your mind. It's Physically not possible or measurable.

No, no no dont get me wrong, I already pointed out Turbo size doesnt apear to be his issue, Im elaborating on the point I was making and the logic behind it.....

 

[Rac3rX]

And the theory is not just in my mind BUT demonstrated by STS, I look to them for info on this type of set up as they specialize in it. They have been producing rear mount turbo kits for a while now, this is basically the logic they use when Developing theyre Rear mount turbo kits.

 

[Rac3rX]

Ohh & just thought Id mention, that the exhaust from the cylinders passes through the turbine blades, causing the turbine to spin. The more exhaust that goes through the blades, the faster they spin..... Id like to see heat alone spool up a turbo...... As you said its the heat, not the flow that spools the turbo...lol.. You have to agree its bolth, Its the flow of hot air/gas (some would call it exhaust) that spins the turbine

 

[Brian MP5T]

Ohh & just thought Id mention, that the exhaust from the cylinders passes through the turbine blades, causing the turbine to spin. The more exhaust that goes through the blades, the faster they spin..... Id like to see heat alone spool up a turbo...... As you said its the heat, not the flow that spools the turbo...lol.. You have to agree its bolth, Its the flow of hot air/gas (some would call it exhaust) that spins the turbine

Hey Man, What the hell do you think "Expanding Gasses" means..

The Cold Flow is almost nothing compared tothe sweet spot of where the gasses are hot and still expanding. (Like Close To The Motor)

You really need to hit the books. I thought we were done with thei back and forth BS..

 

[Rac3rX]

Hey Man, What the hell do you think "Expanding Gasses" means..

The Cold Flow is almost nothing compared tothe sweet spot of where the gasses are hot and still expanding. (Like Close To The Motor)

You really need to hit the books. I thought we were done with thei back and forth BS..

Yeah I was kidding, you should of known "What the hell do you think "Expanding Gasses" means.." Cause it is true, no flow no go, and they are conected, so when reffering to one they bolth come hand in hand, so I hope you see the point. You said "The Turbo is powered by "Expanding Exhaust Gasses" Not Ex Flow.. IE The Heat of the Exhaust not the flow" when attempting to correct me, however....... Thats not true..... The FLOW of the hot Exhaust gasses turns the turbine, heat and no flow means no go

Im done with the BS (poke) (glare)

I might just do that, I sugest you do the same, there is always something to learn You seem to have a need to hit them as well

 

[Brian MP5T]

Yeah I was kidding, you should of known "What the hell do you think "Expanding Gasses" means.." Cause it is true, no flow no go, and they are conected, so when reffering to one they bolth come hand in hand, so I hope you see the point. You said "The Turbo is powered by "Expanding Exhaust Gasses" Not Ex Flow.. IE The Heat of the Exhaust not the flow" when attempting to correct me, however....... Thats not true..... The FLOW of the hot Exhaust gasses turns the turbine, heat and no flow means no go

Im done with the BS (poke) (glare)

I might just do that, I sugest you do the same, there is always something to learn You seem to have a need to hit them as well

The Flow and Expanding Gasses are not both spooling...

Here it is easy...

The Expanding Gases Create The Flow.

So Long Manifold... Like a Pipe Running to the rear of the car... The gasses will expand and then contract as the pipe cools the mixture and some energy is lost.

Seriously, I can't believe you are calling me out on this..

 

[wannabe]

Seriously, I can't believe you are calling me out on this..

(werd) Brian is teh smart

 

[DiS]

(werd) Brian is teh smart

I second that!

 

[peepsalot]

so just ceramic coat and heat wrap your whole exhaust.