can you explain why, if the core is the exact same, a fmic would not have more lag? the only way to accomplish this would be with less piping which is pretty hard to do.
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FMIC versus SMIC which is better
- Thread starter zoom 79gc
- Start date
Ricers with OVERSIZED FMICs have lag. (braindead
So what.
To say a blanket statement like; "the SMIC is the best option" or "FMIC have more lag" is ******* retarded. Too many people on this forum say that and it's BS.
i think what YOU'RE saying is retarded... instead of just bitching people in the thread why not add you own personnal experience and try to do it with an objective look..
thew only other factor is filling up the pipes.. which have volume too..can you explain why, if the core is the exact same, a fmic would not have more lag? the only way to accomplish this would be with less piping which is pretty hard to do.
i think what YOU'RE saying is retarded... instead of just bitching people in the thread why not add you own personnal experience and try to do it with an objective look..
I only said I'm tired of the misinformation here. I never bitched at anyone.
It's all in your perception.
I guess you relate what you read to yourself, and your own way of thinking so you thought it came off as an attack.
I thought he had been told, somewhere on here, or some ricer out on the streets, that FMIC has more lag, since he stated he was unknowledgeable, and that seems to be the concensus from people without a direct comparison, and was telling him not to listen to the asshats here who say that.
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yep, and given that the FMIC on the MSP will have more piping than the SMIC, an FMIC has to be more laggy unless you use significantly smaller piping for the FMIC to account for the volume difference (which you don't want to do). so an FMIC is more laggy naturally on the MSP all other things being equal and saying so is not a retarded statement.thew only other factor is filling up the pipes.. which have volume too..
the difference that you may experience in practice is mostly in the core. if the SMIC uses a crappy core and the FMIC uses a good core the lag induced by the IC system could be the same even though the volume of piping is different. at that point it is 1 specific system vs another specific system, not FMIC vs SMIC
can you explain why, if the core is the exact same, a fmic would not have more lag? the only way to accomplish this would be with less piping which is pretty hard to do.
Because there's enough boost to overcome the slightly longer piping.
Physics really.
The benefit of having a properly sized FMIC set up is direct airflow, and cooler charge air, but WTF do I know, it's not like I have tried both ways or anything...(yupnope)
which physics? as far as i know boost is a measure of pressure. one factor in pressure is volume. if there is more volume it's going to take more air to reach that pressure level. getting more air from the turbo takes more time. more time means more lag.Because there's enough boost to overcome the slightly longer piping.
Physics really.
which physics? as far as i know boost is a measure of pressure. one factor in pressure is volume. if there is more volume it's going to take more air to reach that pressure level. getting more air from the turbo takes more time. more time means more lag.
Like I said, there is enough pressure (boost) to overcome the loss you get from slightly longer piping.
Resulting in,,,,
no lag.
Is it that hard to understand?(dunno)
The amount of volume added in piping is minimal when compared to the pressure created by your turbo.
Thread cleaned up.
While I understand everyone's frustrations with the repeated thread titles, the incorrect information that can be posted, and so on -- it doesn't give ANYBODY the right to speak to others in a condescending matter.
If you can't control your mouth or your temper, please refrain from posting.
I'm sorry that I have a life other than modding the MSP section. If there was some magical way to prevent such repetitive thread-making, believe me, I'd do it in a second. But I can only do so much, and try to do the best I can.
Back on topic, please.
While I understand everyone's frustrations with the repeated thread titles, the incorrect information that can be posted, and so on -- it doesn't give ANYBODY the right to speak to others in a condescending matter.
If you can't control your mouth or your temper, please refrain from posting.
I'm sorry that I have a life other than modding the MSP section. If there was some magical way to prevent such repetitive thread-making, believe me, I'd do it in a second. But I can only do so much, and try to do the best I can.
Back on topic, please.
i don't think you really understand what "boost" is or how your turbo creates "pressure"
Sorry man, it's you.
How can you honestly think that a turbo does not put out enough pressure to compensate the minimal added volume of the piping, and core?
That makes no sense.
Ok, I live in Florida avg. temp in summer is 90 and 74 in winter, plan on boosting 9-10 PSI with supporting mods. FMIC or SMIC? At 10 PSI will the FMIC still have lag?
do you ever plan on going more than 10psi?
a effecient SMIC would be perfectly fine in your situation. You could get away with a hiboost FMIC if you would like the bling bling factor but it wouldnt be needed. With such low boost levels and the t25 being at a pretty optimal boost level in it compressor map and a SMIC like turbohoses or customMSP you shouldnt have anyproblem.
a turbo does not push out pressure. it pushes out air molecules at a velocity. that velocity is faster than the engine will take in on its own. the air travels down the pipes and essentially because it's being shoved in by the turbo faster than it is pulled out by the engine it backs up. as it backs up the turbo continues to spin and positive pressure is created, or boost. once the air has backed up enough that it is at the preset level of the boost controller the wastegate opens so the turbine does not spin any faster. if there is a greater volume of piping to fill it takes longer for that buildup to occur because it needs more air molecules to fill it. thus more volume in piping increases lagSorry man, it's you.
How can you honestly think that a turbo does not put out enough pressure to compensate the minimal added volume of the piping, and core?
That makes no sense.
it's better to think of it in terms of air molecules than just as air. X number of air molecules fit into a tube of length Y at pressure Z, or Z=X/Y. if you increase Y you must also increase X in order to maintain the same ratio, Z, otherwise your ratio becomes smaller because the denominator becomes bigger
There are always trade-offs with any given setup, but saying one is better is like arguing about what food you like best. I don't want a IC that heatsoaks after a few blasts, but I don't want a IC that takes all day to fill when I am running low boost.
I know a few people who have gone with a upgraded SMIC, and they heatsoaked it constantly and wished they had gone with a FMIC. I also know a few people who have gone with a FMIC, didn't run enough boost to overcome the extra lag, and later wished they had gone with a SMIC.
For my setup and goals with the car, I prefer FMIC. Working on a shorter pipe setup for it though.
I know a few people who have gone with a upgraded SMIC, and they heatsoaked it constantly and wished they had gone with a FMIC. I also know a few people who have gone with a FMIC, didn't run enough boost to overcome the extra lag, and later wished they had gone with a SMIC.
For my setup and goals with the car, I prefer FMIC. Working on a shorter pipe setup for it though.
First off, I would like to thank all of you who took the time to read and express your opinions on this matter . once again it shows the strenght of this forum. After reading and keeping up with this thread, I think a few of us have learned a few things, which is what this thread was started for.Once again thanks to all who voiced there opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly, and as I said that small amount of added volume is not enough to really noticeably effect it.a turbo does not push out pressure. it pushes out air molecules at a velocity. that velocity is faster than the engine will take in on its own. the air travels down the pipes and essentially because it's being shoved in by the turbo faster than it is pulled out by the engine it backs up. as it backs up the turbo continues to spin and positive pressure is created, or boost. once the air has backed up enough that it is at the preset level of the boost controller the wastegate opens so the turbine does not spin any faster. if there is a greater volume of piping to fill it takes longer for that buildup to occur because it needs more air molecules to fill it. thus more volume in piping increases lag
it's better to think of it in terms of air molecules than just as air. X number of air molecules fit into a tube of length Y at pressure Z, or Z=X/Y. if you increase Y you must also increase X in order to maintain the same ratio, Z, otherwise your ratio becomes smaller because the denominator becomes bigger
Exactly, and as I said that small amount of added volume is not enough to really noticeably effect it.
That's the thing though, on some of these FMIC kits, the extra volume is not just a small amount, it is actually like 2 to 3 TIMES as much. I agree that on some setups it can be overcome, but when running lower boost, it can make a big difference to throttle response and low end power.
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