Engine Swap Begins

[yashart@work]

Extremely untrue. Please explain to me how Hondas running 10.2:1+ CRs manage to not blow up.

Extremely untrue? Hardly. It is VERY true in most cases. You know this too. MOST engine builders drop compression ratio whether they are building an all out drag monster, or a fun reliable daily driver.

We are talking "in general". How many people do you know that are rebuilding an engine, and using high compression pistons? Slim to none. Why? Because the general rule of thumb is less high compression = NA. You can't dispute that.

Also, you CANNOT compare most honda engines to our FS engine. Look at the k20a, H22, yada yada yada. MOST honda engines are built alot stronger than our FS engine. You cannot dispute that either. Lets be realistic about it here....


Im sorry Jeff, but after you asshole posts--- lets just say I'll be watching this thread closely for your "results"

 

[Blackrose]

The rods are the biggest issue in the whole build..... the only reason i mentioned the honda guy was because it was high compression + very high Cyl press. There is no doubt about hondas motors being better built. My point is he had no detonation. And that is the main part of making this happen. Avoiding detonation....

We are talking "in general". How many people do you know that are rebuilding an engine, and using high compression pistons? Slim to none. Why? Because the general rule of thumb is less high compression = NA. You can't dispute that.

Also, you CANNOT compare most honda engines to our FS engine. Look at the k20a, H22, yada yada yada. MOST honda engines are built alot stronger than our FS engine. You cannot dispute that either. Lets be realistic about it here....


Im sorry Jeff, but after your asshole posts, I am looking foward to saying "I told you so"

 

[yashart@work]

The rods are the biggest issue in the whole build..... the only reason i mentioned the honda guy was because it was high compression + very high Cyl press. There is no doubt about hondas motors being better built. My point is he had no detonation. And that is the main part of making this happen. Avoiding detonation....

My comment was addressed to Low_psi. I agree with you though, I know it can be done and has been done, and If I were going to attempt such a feat, it would be with a honda engine. And yes, the stock rods are what is going to fail on Jeff. Although Jeff claims to have more experience than all of us, his attitude and "plan of action" shows must of us that he really has no idea what he is doing.

 

[low_psi]

We are talking "in general". How many people do you know that are rebuilding an engine, and using high compression pistons? Slim to none. Why? Because the general rule of thumb is less high compression = NA. You can't dispute that.

No one is talking "in general." I know of plenty FI engines that have been built with increased compression, because I've talked to the builders. You stated that boost and high compression ratios(what is considered high?) are bad, period. That is simply untrue. Stop making blanket statements, then trying to cover them by saying "most," atleast standby your statements.

You say, 10.x CR + boost is IMPOSSIBLE("no boost, period)", but Hondas run like that everyday... the engine comparison isn't out of the question. Honda motors crack piston ring lands rather than trash rods like an FS-DE. Every motor has its weakness.

Its usually best to not look to the tuner market for golden standards. Just because a lot of people do something, does not mean it is the only way. You keep saying a turbo FSZE can't be done reliably but you have no data to prove this.

 

[69RMSP]

Do you consdier the stock tune a proper tune?

This is where you are wrong, there have been cases of the msp blowing up at STOCK BOOST. 150 hp, 100 under what your stating your running. And even N/A Motors blowing up!. Dude you asked for opinions, mine is very firm. This motor will not last long. High Compression and Boost do not go together, get you some stock pistons from the fsde and swap em out. That is your best bet.

 

[low_psi]

Here you can see 8psi w/ ZE pistons has slightly less ECR than 12psi w/ DE pistons.

PS- Hate on.

 

[69RMSP]

Nice find

Here you can see 8psi w/ ZE pistons has slightly less ECR than 12psi w/ DE pistons.

PS- Hate on.

 

[low_psi]

I made it

 

[Blake]

I made it

Marc we are talking stock ignition timing mang. You know as well as I do, that it will knock. If he gets an ems with timing control, hed be in a better seat than he is now. But if he is gonna run stock timing with fuel control, it can only lead to a problematic time for him.

 

[jeffmsp]

yasart and blake sorry for being a prick, just how i get sometimes. Seriously though I dont know what you people are doing to blow these motors. No way i had a factory freak. Its friday night and i need to get laid ill tty guys later

 

[69RMSP]

even better..


must be nice jeff, im gonna be stuck at work till 2 am :/

I made it

 

[low_psi]

Marc we are talking stock ignition timing mang. You know as well as I do, that it will knock. If he gets an ems with timing control, hed be in a better seat than he is now. But if he is gonna run stock timing with fuel control, it can only lead to a problematic time for him.

True, having timing control would be a big plus. But the stock timing isn't that aggressive. With meth injection, I'm curious if 8psi is do-able.

What I believe happens with the Split Second AFC is once you start reducing the MAF voltage past a certain point, the timing starts to retard in addition to the injector pulse. This is because the ECU is seeing a temp reading from the IAT but also a "warmer" reading from the MAF and it decides to pull timing. Depending on how much Jeff has to adjust his fueling, he could see timing changes(either + or -).

 

[yashart_mp3]

No one is talking "in general." I know of plenty FI engines that have been built with increased compression, because I've talked to the builders. You stated that boost and high compression ratios(what is considered high?) are bad, period. That is simply untrue. Stop making blanket statements, then trying to cover them by saying "most," atleast standby your statements.

You say, 10.x CR + boost is IMPOSSIBLE("no boost, period)", but Hondas run like that everyday... the engine comparison isn't out of the question. Honda motors crack piston ring lands rather than trash rods like an FS-DE. Every motor has its weakness.

Its usually best to not look to the tuner market for golden standards. Just because a lot of people do something, does not mean it is the only way. You keep saying a turbo FSZE can't be done reliably but you have no data to prove this.

Stand by statements? I DO. I am talking in general. You know nothing in this world is 100% absolute. There are exceptions to every "rule". I am not trying to change my arguement. I am simply trying to get you to agree with me that MOST engine builders drop compresssion when doing an FI engine build. I am not making blanket statements. Im simply saying what is generally known. High compression and FI is usually a bad thing.

I never once said that 10.4 CR's + Boost was impossible. I am saying that doing this build (10.4:1 compression with 8psi without timing control, and then installing a smic later and turning up the boost) is just silly stupid, especially with our weak rods. You are picking out the exception to the rule with hondas. Honda makes some of the strongest and best build engines in the market. Yes, honda's do blow engines as well too, but not nearly as easily as our FS.

There is no reason to insult me. I am done with this thread. I wish him the best of luck.

 

[jeffmsp]

The reason Honda motors can take a decent amount of boost while having high compression is because they have combustion chambers that are excellent at surpressing detonation and are very efficient. This is why i do not plan to boost over 8psi without at least a better flowing turbo and manifold to relieve heat and backpressure, an upgrading SMIC to further reduce intake temps(the injection alone would be enough without even having an intercooler so trust me a smic will be fine if not overkill, chemical intercooling is very effective and the methenol injection is also key for reducing intake temps, cylinder head temps and combustion temps while largely reducing the chance of detonation as you are mixing the air with a highly potent fuel) WOW 6 pages already

 

[jeffmsp]

I wish him the best of luck.

thanks, and if it does blow Ill put you up there on the list of told ya so's

 

[kamon8404]

I don't see why it wouldn't work. Yes, the higher compression will not allow high boost apps sure, but as stated like 30 times in this thread he will be running 8 psi. So, he should be alright inless something goes thats uncontrollable.

Do you plan on swapping the rods and pistons at a later date to run higher boost?

 

[orng1]

I could see this happening with a J&S and the meth injection. With those two things it may work out for him. This thread has gotten long, curious to see how it turns out.

 

[Green2000~ES]

Hows the pull going?? I pulled my 1.8 out the top and replaced it with a 30k less mileage motor after locking up my first one.. went hella smooth.. just disconect the engine from the trans, seperate em andmake sure you have support under the trans if your not pulling it out.. I left the trans in the car, pulled the old replaced it with the new.. bolted it in, reconnected the wires, fired it up... been driving it ever since... hardest part was not having a spline tool to realign the input shaft but i managed... Good luck!!

I want to get a dif engine to mod and swap now...

 

[jeffmsp]

UPDATE: DSM AFC Ver 2 on the way from John. Shopping wideband tomorrow. Picking up wrx 440s from guy in toronto tomorrow. The list goes on..

 

[jeffmsp]

booooooo ENGINE SWAP CANCELLED! ENGINE REPLACEMENT STARTS TONIGHT LOL After all that BS I went to go pick up the motor today. shop called J K Japanese engines on Finch and Dufferin area. very very shady place. many ..."uneducated" people all of the places yelling and complaining about stuff jabbering in languages that I could not make out for a damn. back to story i finnally get the guy there hagi to help me and we go see the motor. to my surprise the first thing I notice is the lack of black resonator box on the intake manifold. wtf is this motor i asked the guy. i want a fsze, you told me twice you have a JDM FSZE motor from a famillia. he says ya this is fs-ze. here is paperwork showing it came out of jspec familia and shipping receipts from japan. I spend about 5 mins looking over the motor. Head is marked FS9 motor has FS01 dipstick strange looking intake manifold. I did not have any tools to remove the valve cover and check the cams. I am pretty sure this motor is from a jspec mazda van as THE MAN described in an old thread. I am not 100% sure and I really didnt want to buy a motor that I dont even know wtf it is. I dont think it was a FP as I didnt see FP anywhere on the block. It was also mated to a torque converter so it was from an auto which is making me think even more that it was from the van. I figured **** it, this could have been cool but I dont wanna plop down 900 for the motor and the guy would not include any accessories or warranty and this place is shady as hell. If any of you guys are going to get a motor from there check it out before paying(they expected me to pay before even seeing the motor lol) I was all pissed off and drove the hour home from the shop. I went onto car-part.com and as luck would have it a motor was at a place called AADCO in Brampton.I went to the place to check it out. Compression tested 205-220 accross all cylinders. It came with a flywheel and clutch. The guy charged me $700 and included a 60 day warranty on the motor, and if I have any problems said they can look over the install and help troubleshoot. It was like a night and day difference than the first shop. First guy was mad shady, these guy were as organized and presentable as a company like UPS. I would heavily reccomend dealing with these people if anyone needs contact info give me a PM. I think they have another motor there from an auto P5. Sorry for all the ecitement for no reason. Pics of new motor tonight once I get it out of the hatch of my escort. came with stock i/e manifolds too. 626 manfold shopping tomorrow, cant wait for afc to arrive.