Engine Failure... I think

[Darth Vader]

There's a huge disconnect between the sales side of a dealership and the service side. This is because, imho, the service side essentially operates as a sub-contractor within the dealer space. Thus communication is impaired and there's little vested interest in solving the other side's problems.

E.g. #1. We buy a used MZ3 GT for my wife. I'm not happy with how it drives, especially cold. It goes back to the dealer 3 times to "reflash the ECU", poke around, diddle then try to tell me nothing's wrong and it's my imagination. I put my head into it, remove the injectors and backflush the crap out of them. 90% solved right there. These idiots tested the fuel pressure but, had no thought about whether the fuel was actually getting to the chamber. What do they teach these morons at mechanic's school?

E.g. # 2 I took my wife's MZ3 GT into the dealer. They find the brakes worn. Wife says, "Fix it". They do. We pick car up, she drives home, tells me there's something funny with the car. I grab my torque wrench and find all 10 rear wheel nuts on finger tight.

I go down to dealership, be a reasonable man and ask them to refund my money for the job and discipline the employee responsible. They did, which I felt was the least they could do, in the way of damage control, considering they put my wife's life at risk. Won't be returning there again, so much for Mazda's "VIP service package".

I do my own work but, it's hard to do that and my wife's car work but, whatcha gonna do when you get treatment like we read about here?

 

[Sveivo]

There's a huge disconnect between the sales side of a dealership and the service side. This is because, imho, the service side essentially operates as a sub-contractor within the dealer space. Thus communication is impaired and there's little vested interest in solving the other side's problems.

E.g. #1. We buy a used MZ3 GT for my wife. I'm not happy with how it drives, especially cold. It goes back to the dealer 3 times to "reflash the ECU", poke around, diddle then try to tell me nothing's wrong and it's my imagination. I put my head into it, remove the injectors and backflush the crap out of them. 90% solved right there. These idiots tested the fuel pressure but, had no thought about whether the fuel was actually getting to the chamber. What do they teach these morons at mechanic's school?

E.g. # 2 I took my wife's MZ3 GT into the dealer. They find the brakes worn. Wife says, "Fix it". They do. We pick car up, she drives home, tells me there's something funny with the car. I grab my torque wrench and find all 10 rear wheel nuts on finger tight.

I go down to dealership, be a reasonable man and ask them to refund my money for the job and discipline the employee responsible. They did, which I felt was the least they could do, in the way of damage control, considering they put my wife's life at risk. Won't be returning there again, so much for Mazda's "VIP service package".

I do my own work but, it's hard to do that and my wife's car work but, whatcha gonna do when you get treatment like we read about here?

What you're saying here is true a lot of times, but there are good dealerships there too. I've never dealt with warranty though (car was too old to have one).

 

[BillTheCat]

I'm disappointed in myself for not following this thread from Day 1. I do remember reading the first few posts, but only tonight did I read all 7 pages. Very disappointing story. Regardless of the sequence of events here, I cannot think of a possible scenario where Mazda and/or their dealership would not be at fault for the result, unless they found that the drain plug was forcibly ripped from the car by running over some obstacle/debris, in which case the whole thing would be an insurance claim. But finding pristine threads on the drain plug hole negates that one possibility.

All of a sudden, I am desperately wanting an oil pressure gauge in my MS3. I hate idiot lights anyhow, but coolant temp & oil pressure should ALWAYS have actual gauges.

 

[eg6motion]

this is a frustrating thread to read. I love my MS3, but it makes you question the potential failure of your own engine as to whether or not a similar situation with Mazda would be experienced...

 

[s-retire]

Very disappointing story. Regardless of the sequence of events here, I cannot think of a possible scenario where Mazda and/or their dealership would not be at fault for the result, unless they found that the drain plug was forcibly ripped from the car by running over some obstacle/debris, in which case the whole thing would be an insurance claim. But finding pristine threads on the drain plug hole negates that one possibility.

Thank you, exactly my point. We had the car serviced at an authorized Mazda dealer as recommended in the owner's manual, according to the most severe schedule published. I can't understand why either business would think it at all reasonable to refuse to resolve this in a way that doesn't shift the loss to us. It wasn't in any way our fault.

The Mazda warranty booklet states that replacement parts and labor provided by an authorized Mazda dealer is covered for the life of the new car warranty. Mazda North American Operations print fliers that advertise this warranty protection.

I can understand that Mazda NAO would be concerned about being left holding the bag if the engine failure was the fault of the dealer, but not at the expense of leaving the customer, me without a car for 5 months. Even though the oil drain plug was found to be missing, it is becoming increasingly evident that the theory that it fell out while my wife was driving is not consistent with the motor internal damage.

It is Mazdas warranty, therefore Mazdas responsibility. I should have been taken care of a long time ago and in the end who winds up being responsible for the cost is their problem.

 

[Bravnik]

I was going to type a huge - WTF post - But honestly I'm too sick at my stomach to do so. Good Luck man. I hope you ream them good.

 

[RODSCALIP5]

Wow! This sucks.........

 

[EvilJen]

I've been following this story for the last couple days and I find it really disheartening that Mazda would treat a customer so terribly. One would think the money it would take for Mazda to repair the car would be pocket change to them.

 

[leadf00t]

This is unbelieveable, I give you credit for sticking with it this long. It looks like my first Mazda will be my last. I am not going to support a company by purchasing their cars when they treat people like this. You should give all of us the address, and contact info for these assholes, so we can all send letters telling them that their arrogance is not going un-noticed in the mazda community.

Have you tried involving any of your local media outlets to bring attention to this ?
I mean your wife was in a car that was on fire, and they are responsible ?

 

[s-retire]

This is unbelieveable, I give you credit for sticking with it this long. It looks like my first Mazda will be my last. I am not going to support a company by purchasing their cars when they treat people like this. You should give all of us the address, and contact info for these assholes, so we can all send letters telling them that their arrogance is not going un-noticed in the mazda community.

Have you tried involving any of your local media outlets to bring attention to this ?
I mean your wife was in a car that was on fire, and they are responsible ?

I recently submitted a form to the local TV station that does consumer action reporting, but they say upfront they dont like to cover car related issues.

While I might appreciate people calling or sending an e-mail, I expect it would have limited impact, here is the contact info:
Paul Winovitch, Manager, Customer Mediation
Mazda North American Operations
7755 Irvine Center Drive
Irvine, CA 92618

Phone: (949) 727-6879
e-mail: pwinovit@mazdausa.com

Better still, I think it might be beneficial for any and all parties with warranty denial to start communicating with one another. If we show we are willing to join together and explore the merits of class action, maybe well see more reasonable response from Mazda NAO. (gossip)

If youve been denied warranty and are interested, send me a PM with your contact onfo.

 

[RODSCALIP5]

E-mail sent. I havent had any issues with 7 years of owning 3 different Mazdas, but this is unsat and kind of turns me off to the brand.

 

[jonscapri]

Unfortunately Mazda is getting more and more complicated everyday. I bought a Speed 6 and as it is a fun great car it's been a headache. They voided my warranty , and since it's been pricey to fix. I've been through 2 axles, 2 rear diff mounts. and a few other little things.

I've also been working a few other Mazdas because they want to avoid the dealer. As much as I hate to say this they build the power train with almost sub-standard parts. I've seen this with most of their engines.

My experience with Mazda has been a joke, and I'm not buying another one plain and simple. God luck with your car hope that Mazda stops jerking you around.

 

[6SpeedTA95]

This is pretty disturbing, considering I am in the market for a new car and planned on purchasing a speed3, to see them treat customers so badly is truly disturbing.

It makes me wnat to seriously consider a civic SI, VW GTI or the TSX which was previously at the top of my list. At least none of the above have consistent problems with motors going pop and then the company screwing their customers.

I've owned several mazdas but this has really got me second guessing my decision to purchase a speed3 in August.

 

[Super Unique]

If you look around, you will find owners getting the run around from ALL the different makes of cars. I had a supposedly bullet proof toyota avalon puke it's engine internals on the street 3 different times. Each time was "engine failure due to improper maintenance" , then I handed them the complete stack of receipts from their very own service department. That shut their pie hole in a big hurry. Unfortunately, there is no more customer in customer service it seems. I expect the bubblegum chewing girl @ the mcdonalds drive thru to not give a crap if I got napkins and a straw with my order, but when you drop between 20 to 30k on a car, you would hope they take care of you.

I am not saying what mazda has been doing is right, but you can't single them out for it, when it's common practice now among all the major brands.

 

[BillTheCat]

I've also been working a few other Mazdas because they want to avoid the dealer. As much as I hate to say this they build the power train with almost sub-standard parts. I've seen this with most of their engines.

Just curious... my first 2 Mazdas were a '93 MX-3 (new) and a '90 Miata (used). Both were extremely reliable cars. The kind of reliable you can hand off to a person who only knows to put gas in it & go to Spiffy Lube every 3-5k miles, and they'd just keep purring right along.

Any idea around what point in time Mazda's engines started going South in quality of parts and/or build quality? Any idea of the reasons behind it, aside from the obvious- cost cutting?

Frankly, if I had heard this much negativity about the engine durability and Mazda's response to it before I bought the Speed3, I might have held onto my MINI Cooper S a year or two longer. Now, I'm just holding out hope that the durability issues are more isolated than they seem, and that Mazda's Warranty Nazis are not as bad as it seems from reading the forums.

 

[6SpeedTA95]

Just curious... my first 2 Mazdas were a '93 MX-3 (new) and a '90 Miata (used). Both were extremely reliable cars. The kind of reliable you can hand off to a person who only knows to put gas in it & go to Spiffy Lube every 3-5k miles, and they'd just keep purring right along.

Any idea around what point in time Mazda's engines started going South in quality of parts and/or build quality? Any idea of the reasons behind it, aside from the obvious- cost cutting?

Frankly, if I had heard this much negativity about the engine durability and Mazda's response to it before I bought the Speed3, I might have held onto my MINI Cooper S a year or two longer. Now, I'm just holding out hope that the durability issues are more isolated than they seem, and that Mazda's Warranty Nazis are not as bad as it seems from reading the forums.

If it makes you feel any better I know two mazda service tech's (well one is a former service tech) and they both said mazda gave little or no issues on properly maintained vehicles in their experience when major problems were encountered. Of those two guys only one has seen a 2.3 turbo go south, so it seems to be very isolated but blown out of proportion on the message boards.

To give you an idea on my maxima if you read the maxima forums there are countless people complaining about oil burning issues with the cars. Makes you seem/feel like almost all of them do it. In fact only a few of them do it and my car has been flawless (other than the bad gas cap which I replaced today so the CEL should go away).

So forums tend to blow this stuff out of proportion, I just sent this thread to a buddy of mine that used to work for mazda I'll let you guys know what he thinks/says.

 

[s-retire]

I'll be interested in reading what your buddy(s) have to say...

If it makes you feel any better I know two mazda service tech's (well one is a former service tech) and they both said mazda gave little or no issues on properly maintained vehicles in their experience when major problems were encountered. Of those two guys only one has seen a 2.3 turbo go south, so it seems to be very isolated but blown out of proportion on the message boards.

So forums tend to blow this stuff out of proportion, I just sent this thread to a buddy of mine that used to work for mazda I'll let you guys know what he thinks/says.

There isn't anything being blown out of proportion here, but you're not the one with a broken down $25k car sitting in your driveway, so I imagine you might not understand.

Neither Mazda NAO or the servicing dealer are suggesting that I did anything wrong. My intent was to "properly maintain" my car using the authorized dealer for the service. The motor blew and by denying any responsability, both Mazda NAO and the dealer are more than happy to shift the loss responsability to me. The car might be great, but if this is the quality of Mazda Customer Care, it ain't worth s***... (smash)

but, That being said, it appears that the direct injected turbo motor has some real design flaws. You don't have to look far to find a lot of examples of motors with bent or broken rods, intake ports loaded with carbon (how does that happen with a direct injected motor?) and burns on the piston tops that lead to the rings.

 

[6SpeedTA95]

There isn't anything being blown out of proportion here, but you're not the one with a broken down $25k car sitting in your driveway, so I imagine you might not understand.

Neither Mazda NAO or the servicing dealer are suggesting that I did anything wrong. My intent was to "properly maintain" my car using the authorized dealer for the service. The motor blew and by denying any responsability, both Mazda NAO and the dealer are more than happy to shift the loss responsability to me. The car might be great, but if this is the quality of Mazda Customer Care, it ain't worth s***... (smash)

but, That being said, it appears that the direct injected turbo motor has some real design flaws. You don't have to look far to find a lot of examples of motors with bent or broken rods, intake ports loaded with carbon (how does that happen with a direct injected motor?) and burns on the piston tops that lead to the rings.

I'm not saying nor do I think your issue is being blown out of proportion. I'm talking about general issues with the mazdaspeed3, nto your case. Your case is disturbing as I ALREADY mentioned. My point was that every manufacturer has issues like this, they're all disturbing...every car company has motors that grenade, when viewing internet forums you tend to see a lot more negative as opposed to positives in this regard which can distort the view people have regarding the reliability of a vehicle.

In your case it appears you're getting screwed, plain and simple. I am not trying to detract from the problems of your individual situation, merely pointing out that issues arise with every car and every mfg and the internet seems to exacerbate the number of issues...

There are definately a fair number of blown motor threads and stories. The vast majority of those stories are on cars that have been modified substantially and as a result the A:F ratio has been drastically altered on a car which has a fairly weak fuel system to begin with. In addition many people improperly mod their cars resulting in boost creep/overboost. The car begins to run lean, knock damages the rods and then one day it pops. The vast majority of blown engine cases are these sort of issues.

There are a few issues where people are stock or mildly bolted and blowing motors, these are few and far between when you consider the number of mazdaspeed3's on the road. In addition the speed3 seems to be blowing more motors than the speed6 or the cx7 which tells me that drivers have something to do with this (even though not a soul will admit it).

As for mazda shifting the loss to you, that is 100% bs on their part, I wish someone there is paying attention because this may ultimately sway me towards something else. The speed3 fits my wants/desires perfectly but I think companies should take care of customers and in this case they are giving you the screw job.


Also if everyone who had a problem with a blown motor would register the issue on the NHTSA it may force a recall.

edit: One more thing, friend of mine said you're getting the screw job and get a lawyer.

 

[954_ms3]

keep up the fight. I'm sure at least 1/3 of the people reading through this thread have had similar issues with warranties and their MS3/6's. I know I'm one of them and was without a car for 2 months thanks to Mazda NAO. They will find any excuse to place the blame on the customer, even if it's complete BS. If you ever decide to take some sort of action that would require more people with similar stories please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

[Lee456]

Neither Mazda NAO or the servicing dealer are suggesting that I did anything wrong. My intent was to "properly maintain" my car using the authorized dealer for the service. The motor blew and by denying any responsability, both Mazda NAO and the dealer are more than happy to shift the loss responsability to me. The car might be great, but if this is the quality of Mazda Customer Care, it ain't worth s***... (smash)

As I've said before in this thread, I'm completely sympathetic to your situation, which also scares the hell out of me as the owner of a Speed3. This statement confuses me, though. They are not saying you did anything wrong and yet they maintain they have no responsibilty under the warrenty. What are they claiming that it was an act of God? I believe there is a clause in the warrenty that exempts natural disasters, acts of war and so on but short of that I don't see how they can say it is not your fault and is not the result of a defect.